| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 12:04:57 PM | |
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I've got things to do around the home. So I'm departing as well. Take care Strat. It was good chatting with you, and DF again.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:52:54 AM)| |  | stratlover wrote: | | COME ON!!! You still use that excuse over there? Youre not so advanced as I thoguht...
But in any case, it beats the hell out of the imgainary WMDs...
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | That would be too fair Strat. The government must twist things in such a way as to get what it wants.
So you aren't considering Obama a risk to peace? He's already set up one of the oldest excuses in the book...
Obama's letter of opology to the World for WW3 will read something like this...
Dear sir, or madam's,
I had the peace negotiations last night I swear, but my daughters new puppy ate it!
Sincerely opologetic,
Obama
| | | stratlover wrote: | | That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:58:07 AM | |
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Take care DF.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:56:16 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | They most certainly are NOT imaginary!!! They are in my neighbor's garage........HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah well, I must depart for a while! Thank you , as usual strat, for the stimulating conversation! It is ALWAYS a pleasure, I can assure you. And DC, GREAT to see you again my friend. Please come by more often!!!
Bye guys!!!!!!!
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:52:54 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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COME ON!!! You still use that excuse over there? Youre not so advanced as I thoguht...
But in any case, it beats the hell out of the imgainary WMDs...
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DemonCat wrote: |
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That would be too fair Strat. The government must twist things in such a way as to get what it wants.
So you aren't considering Obama a risk to peace? He's already set up one of the oldest excuses in the book...
Obama's letter of opology to the World for WW3 will read something like this...
Dear sir, or madam's,
I had the peace negotiations last night I swear, but my daughters new puppy ate it!
Sincerely opologetic,
Obama
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stratlover wrote: |
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That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
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stratlover wrote: |
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Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:57:29 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:57:34 AM | |
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Bush needed some excuse to wage 2 wars, in the hopes of gaining more oil for the U.S citizens, with our gas guzzling cars.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:52:54 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | COME ON!!! You still use that excuse over there? Youre not so advanced as I thoguht...
But in any case, it beats the hell out of the imgainary WMDs...
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | That would be too fair Strat. The government must twist things in such a way as to get what it wants.
So you aren't considering Obama a risk to peace? He's already set up one of the oldest excuses in the book...
Obama's letter of opology to the World for WW3 will read something like this...
Dear sir, or madam's,
I had the peace negotiations last night I swear, but my daughters new puppy ate it!
Sincerely opologetic,
Obama
| | | stratlover wrote: | | That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:56:16 AM | |
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They most certainly are NOT imaginary!!! They are in my neighbor's garage........HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah well, I must depart for a while! Thank you , as usual strat, for the stimulating conversation! It is ALWAYS a pleasure, I can assure you. And DC, GREAT to see you again my friend. Please come by more often!!!
Bye guys!!!!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:52:54 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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COME ON!!! You still use that excuse over there? Youre not so advanced as I thoguht...
But in any case, it beats the hell out of the imgainary WMDs...
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DemonCat wrote: |
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That would be too fair Strat. The government must twist things in such a way as to get what it wants.
So you aren't considering Obama a risk to peace? He's already set up one of the oldest excuses in the book...
Obama's letter of opology to the World for WW3 will read something like this...
Dear sir, or madam's,
I had the peace negotiations last night I swear, but my daughters new puppy ate it!
Sincerely opologetic,
Obama
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stratlover wrote: |
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That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
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stratlover wrote: |
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Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:57:29 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:54:03 AM | |
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It's ok DF. I could have used the "spell-checker" button on my toolbar, but I'm lazy, and I have you. LOL [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:52:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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BWWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!! Oh MAN, DC!!! Yeah!!!..., and he will spell apology just like that!!! HAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!! I am so sorry, my friend! I simply could not resist! Please forgive me!!!!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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That would be too fair Strat. The government must twist things in such a way as to get what it wants.
So you aren't considering Obama a risk to peace? He's already set up one of the oldest excuses in the book...
Obama's letter of opology to the World for WW3 will read something like this...
Dear sir, or madam's,
I had the peace negotiations last night I swear, but my daughters new puppy ate it!
Sincerely opologetic,
Obama
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stratlover wrote: |
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That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
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stratlover wrote: |
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Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:52:54 AM | |
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COME ON!!! You still use that excuse over there? Youre not so advanced as I thoguht...
But in any case, it beats the hell out of the imgainary WMDs...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by DemonCat from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:50:23 AM)| | | DemonCat wrote: | | That would be too fair Strat. The government must twist things in such a way as to get what it wants.
So you aren't considering Obama a risk to peace? He's already set up one of the oldest excuses in the book...
Obama's letter of opology to the World for WW3 will read something like this...
Dear sir, or madam's,
I had the peace negotiations last night I swear, but my daughters new puppy ate it!
Sincerely opologetic,
Obama
| | | stratlover wrote: | | That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:52:38 AM | |
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BWWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!! Oh MAN, DC!!! Yeah!!!..., and he will spell apology just like that!!! HAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!! I am so sorry, my friend! I simply could not resist! Please forgive me!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by DemonCat from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:50:23 AM)| | | DemonCat wrote: | | That would be too fair Strat. The government must twist things in such a way as to get what it wants.
So you aren't considering Obama a risk to peace? He's already set up one of the oldest excuses in the book...
Obama's letter of opology to the World for WW3 will read something like this...
Dear sir, or madam's,
I had the peace negotiations last night I swear, but my daughters new puppy ate it!
Sincerely opologetic,
Obama
| | | stratlover wrote: | | That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:51:00 AM | |
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I see. But that means that a voters vote from a less populated state is actualy worth more than a vote from a highly populated one. Wouldnt the "one voter = one vote" be more fair?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:47:54 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Well, at the time our "Founding Father's" developed this system, it was meant to keep the states with a higher population from getting an unfair advantage, since the majority of the population lived in certain areas. The states were assigned a certain number of "Electoral Votes" instead. This was meant to assist the less populated areas and give them an "equal voice", as it were. That is a rather simplified version of the answer but I am no scholar.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:40:40 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
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stratlover wrote: |
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Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:49:55 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:50:23 AM | |
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That would be too fair Strat. The government must twist things in such a way as to get what it wants.
So you aren't considering Obama a risk to peace? He's already set up one of the oldest excuses in the book...
Obama's letter of opology to the World for WW3 will read something like this...
Dear sir, or madam's,
I had the peace negotiations last night I swear, but my daughters new puppy ate it!
Sincerely opologetic,
Obama
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:40:40 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:47:54 AM | |
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Well, at the time our "Founding Father's" developed this system, it was meant to keep the states with a higher population from getting an unfair advantage, since the majority of the population lived in certain areas. The states were assigned a certain number of "Electoral Votes" instead. This was meant to assist the less populated areas and give them an "equal voice", as it were. That is a rather simplified version of the answer but I am no scholar.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:40:40 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
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stratlover wrote: |
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Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:40:40 AM | |
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That is true, but as I said, I dont see it as a matter of knowing, rather as a matter of being entitled to something. I mean, lets face it, most people dont really take a great interest in politics. But most people are in one way or the other supporting the state apparatus. Now, if they have to, then I think its only right that they get to choose who leads it. Those things actualy are mutualy inclusive for the most part. I mean, its not like you have to understand politics very well to know which side represents what at a certain time.
Actualy George bush was elected because of your weird electing system. And thats something that I wanted to ask to. What all this stuff with electoral votes? Why not just count all the voters votes and determine the winner?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:22:56 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:33:42 AM | |
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LOL You're probably right.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:25:35 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | Lol, no I think that your next president should be allright... As much as a politician can ever be "allright". If it was Sarah Palin as the Vicepresident, I guess that Russian missiles would already be flying towards her belowed Alaska.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I'm sure it'll work out somehow. I wish you the best next year in getting into college. Sorry you didn't get in this year.
So what do you think...have we taken a closer step towards armageddon?
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, Im sorry to hear that. I hope you get through allright.
Well, Im fine. Graduated, failed to get into a college, so Im working for a year and trying again next year.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | Nah, too much worry. I simply couldn't stop wondering how I'm going to pay my bills this month. How have you been?
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Aha, to much coffee? Well, its good to be back, and good to see you again as well.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I wasn't up early, but rather...I was awake late. 'Til 4 a.m. Good to see you again Strat!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Wow! Youre up early!
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:32:46 AM | |
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I truelly understand what you've been saying in your posts DF, and agree with most of them. There would also be alot more people alive, if driving a vehicle wasn't determined by age as well. We could risk a revolution by changing the laws, but the risk would be too great for it to every actually happen.
My racial comment was actually spawned by every tv channel I tuned into was bringing up the racial significance of our president elect, and not neccesarily what he'll be doing for the American people, and worldly issues, and I was getting sick of hearing it.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:22:56 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:29:04 AM | |
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BWWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:25:35 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | Lol, no I think that your next president should be allright... As much as a politician can ever be "allright". If it was Sarah Palin as the Vicepresident, I guess that Russian missiles would already be flying towards her belowed Alaska.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I'm sure it'll work out somehow. I wish you the best next year in getting into college. Sorry you didn't get in this year.
So what do you think...have we taken a closer step towards armageddon?
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, Im sorry to hear that. I hope you get through allright.
Well, Im fine. Graduated, failed to get into a college, so Im working for a year and trying again next year.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | Nah, too much worry. I simply couldn't stop wondering how I'm going to pay my bills this month. How have you been?
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Aha, to much coffee? Well, its good to be back, and good to see you again as well.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I wasn't up early, but rather...I was awake late. 'Til 4 a.m. Good to see you again Strat!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Wow! Youre up early!
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:25:35 AM | |
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Lol, no I think that your next president should be allright... As much as a politician can ever be "allright". If it was Sarah Palin as the Vicepresident, I guess that Russian missiles would already be flying towards her belowed Alaska.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by DemonCat from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:14:56 AM)| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I'm sure it'll work out somehow. I wish you the best next year in getting into college. Sorry you didn't get in this year.
So what do you think...have we taken a closer step towards armageddon?
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, Im sorry to hear that. I hope you get through allright.
Well, Im fine. Graduated, failed to get into a college, so Im working for a year and trying again next year.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | Nah, too much worry. I simply couldn't stop wondering how I'm going to pay my bills this month. How have you been?
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Aha, to much coffee? Well, its good to be back, and good to see you again as well.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I wasn't up early, but rather...I was awake late. 'Til 4 a.m. Good to see you again Strat!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Wow! Youre up early!
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:22:56 AM | |
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I understand, DC. No worries.
Strat, as usual you make some very salient points. My problem with what you say is this;
Rights and duties are fine. Just because one comes of age does NOT mean one is capable of making decisions as an adult. Just because we "treat" eighteen year olds as adults and they can work and pay taxes and fight in a war does NOT mean they understand politics. So often, people use that silly argument, "Well, if you can fight a war, you should be able to drink, vote, own a gun..whatever..." These things are NOT mutually inclusive!! That is ridiculous. Just because I wear a swimsuit does NOT mean I can swim!!! The "right" to vote is fine. It is part of our Constitution and I accept that but that does NOT mean I AGREE with it!
George Bush was elected because he was the BETTER man. (OH boy..I can hear the haters typing on their keyboards now!!! HA!!) That does not mean it was the RIGHT choice. The "changes" in our voters to which you refer do not include intelligence. Bush was unpopular, I agree. He made mistakes, I agree. I still back him. I will back the new man WHEN he takes office.
Influencing politics would best be served by actually being a politician, as far as I can see. But, as voters, we are very limited in what we can do. And because the majority of our public ARE morons, we get what we get. They do NOT "think for themselves". They believe what "Oprah" tells them! If we were to require EVERY voter to REALLY KNOW what he/she is doing , rather than just being "of age", the influence would be greater and the results better. That , my friend, is MY "humble opinion".
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:04:00 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:14:56 AM | |
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I'm sure it'll work out somehow. I wish you the best next year in getting into college. Sorry you didn't get in this year.
So what do you think...have we taken a closer step towards armageddon?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:12:13 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, Im sorry to hear that. I hope you get through allright.
Well, Im fine. Graduated, failed to get into a college, so Im working for a year and trying again next year.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | Nah, too much worry. I simply couldn't stop wondering how I'm going to pay my bills this month. How have you been?
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Aha, to much coffee? Well, its good to be back, and good to see you again as well.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I wasn't up early, but rather...I was awake late. 'Til 4 a.m. Good to see you again Strat!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Wow! Youre up early!
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:12:13 AM | |
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Well, Im sorry to hear that. I hope you get through allright.
Well, Im fine. Graduated, failed to get into a college, so Im working for a year and trying again next year.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by DemonCat from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:08:18 AM)| | | DemonCat wrote: | | Nah, too much worry. I simply couldn't stop wondering how I'm going to pay my bills this month. How have you been?
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Aha, to much coffee? Well, its good to be back, and good to see you again as well.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I wasn't up early, but rather...I was awake late. 'Til 4 a.m. Good to see you again Strat!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Wow! Youre up early!
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:08:18 AM | |
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Nah, too much worry. I simply couldn't stop wondering how I'm going to pay my bills this month. How have you been?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:05:40 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | Aha, to much coffee? Well, its good to be back, and good to see you again as well.
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I wasn't up early, but rather...I was awake late. 'Til 4 a.m. Good to see you again Strat!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Wow! Youre up early!
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:05:40 AM | |
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Aha, to much coffee? Well, its good to be back, and good to see you again as well.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by DemonCat from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:45:54 AM)| | | DemonCat wrote: | | I wasn't up early, but rather...I was awake late. 'Til 4 a.m. Good to see you again Strat!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Wow! Youre up early!
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:04:00 AM | |
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Well, that is the immpression that I got. I apologise if it isnt true, as you say.
But in any case, yes, it is true, people do learn more as they get older. But this isnt exactly a question of knowledge and experiences. Its a question of rights and duties. In most countries in the world 18 is the age at which people get
officialy treated as adults. Some already go to work at that age and pay taxes so that people like your president or my prime minister can have their wages. Some go to college, but by the mid 20s most work and pay taxes. We all get treated as adults when we are accused of breaking the law. The male half is subject to draft and military service. But we also get rights, and the right to vote is among them. Imo, if we set the age limit for the rights to 30, we should also set the age limit for duties to the same age. Otherwise there will be a generation of people who will have the same duties as their elders, but they wont have the same right to influence politics, that in turn influence our everyday lives.
Now about intelligence... Granted, I dont really know much about an average American voter, but if the vast majority of them are idiots and mindless drones who vote the same as Oprah (and at least on her I can agree, I hate her and her stupid show), how did George Bush win two elections in a row? There have clearly been changes in your voting public, and there are clearly people who voted Obama, that used to vote Bush. And judging by the results, there are a lot of them. It goes to show that there are a lot of people out there who can think for themselves.
As far as Obamas skin colour goes... Well, I agree, who gives a fuck. Apart from the KKK, but they are the least of his problems now.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:39:58 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:54:22 AM | |
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Hello DF! Hope you are feeling well. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. It's my fault for not seperating the racial post from the response to your comment on youngsters, and it hit me wrong that you called a few hundred-thousand voters "idiots"..
My Christian views really have nothing to do with the political views of any leaders. I've always believed that any Earthly government will ultimately fulfill the book of Revelations anyways, and that every step towards the day that God's Kingdom comes to Earth is a great day.
I simply voted for Obama, because I didn't want another Bush administration. It's time for a new direction. It's also good to finally take a huge step IMO in overcoming racial tensions.
To answer your latest question...I do read your posts. I simply chose one small part to respond to. [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:39:58 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
(Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 11:18:49 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:45:54 AM | |
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I wasn't up early, but rather...I was awake late. 'Til 4 a.m. Good to see you again Strat!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:49:01 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | Wow! Youre up early!
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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|
I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:39:58 AM | |
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Oh strat! You know me better than that! My comments had NOTHING to do with the election results (whether or not McCain was the better choice). Doesn't anyone actually read what I write??
First, the reason I use that age is because people really do learn as they grow older. Experience is an incredible asset, my friend. I have never said that all young people are clueless. Take yourself, for example. A very intelligent young man. I am speaking in generalities because, the sad fact is, you do not need intelligence to qualify to vote. The vast majority of the voting public are mindless drones that drool when phonies like Oprah Winfrey speak. They have NO idea what an issue is OR what their "party" stands for. Which leads me to my second response,
I do not believe that any one particular party is right on every issue. I do not always agree with the "right wing" agenda, my friend. I am just wise enough to know that the "system" is NOT going to change in MY lifetime. I also have enough sense to see that Obama has NOT "brought us together" any more or less than any other president-elect! That is absolute HOGWASH. He has done NOTHING but win an election. Nothing. The fact that he is a blackman is irrelevant to me. All of that is hype propogated by the Democratic party in a lame attempt to paint this person as something "larger than life" prior to earning it. Typical smoke and mirrors politics. "Oh look at how he has broken barriers.." "Oh see how he has united the public"... BS!!!!!!! He won an election. Nothing more. Has he made it further than any other blackman in politics? Of course. Does that mean something to some people, apparently. For all the talk about how he has "transcended racial barriers", they sure like to keep reminding us of his color, don't they??
I am not bitter, strat. The vote is in and I will back the president when he takes office. When he finally DOES something as a president, I will comment on that.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM)
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stratlover wrote: |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
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DemonCat wrote: |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:53:34 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:24:55 AM | |
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Aha. So, what exactly does happen at the age of thirty to change a person from someone who should not be allowed to vote, to someone who should be? And what would those exams look like? "Whats better, left or right?" Sorry Freeze, but I cant escape the feeling that you wouldnt be saying all this about Obama and his supporters if McCain had won.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:20:46 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
| |
|
I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:20:46 AM | |
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Ohhhhhboy...........
To begin with, my comment was NOT meant racially. Everyone here knows my feeling on race relations! It was and remains a comment on the youth mentality of our nation. And I could not care less what the "law" says, an 18 year old is a child! As for "many older , white folk", you made the color distinction, not me. I could not care less what color a person is. Wrong is wrong. You make a GREAT point for an argument I have had for YEARS;
NO ONE under the age of THIRTY should be allowed to vote AND it should be MANDATORY that EVERYONE who votes has passed a CIVICS Exam! I am certain that I mentioned in previous posts that MOST voters would not know an ISSUE from a TISSUE! These fine folks you mentioned most certainly understand the platform of the Democratic Liberal Left , though...right?
I am shocked at your response, DC! Mainly because of what I recall are your "Christian" beliefs! It would occur to me that you would be much more concerned with the religious right agenda that will now be packed away and stored until this liberal uprising has been quelled. The "baby killers" are loose in the country, man!!! Mosques will be in a neighborhood near you!!! Christ was just a guy that ran into a bit of bad luck with a piece of wood and the Romans! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you get my point.
I made another point to say, at the beginning of one of my posts, that I believe there is nothing much to be said because he has not done anything yet! I still believe that. I said it once and will say it again, I do NOT knock the man that leads my team. I wish him the best. I did NOT vote for him but that is fine. I will reserve my kudos for an accomplishment or two. Winning this election on the backs of disingenuous blacks, frustrated adults with NO clue and children in baggy pants is nothing to cheer about!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by DemonCat from Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:33:52 AM)| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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|
Deep Freeze wrote: |
| |
|
I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:49:01 AM | |
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Wow! Youre up early!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by DemonCat from Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:33:52 AM)| | | DemonCat wrote: | | "As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
| |
|
I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [DemonCat] Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:33:52 AM | |
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"As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote."
I know plenty of intelligent, elderly, white folk that voted for Obama ( who never heard of P Diddy, or Snoop Dog), but rather, because they were sick-and-tired, of Republican "answers" to the U.S.'s problems! It was proven across this great Nation by the number of Senate leaders, and Congressmen that were voted in to the appropriate offices. People over the age of 18 aren't considered "children"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Give Obama his CUDOS for bringing young MEN, and WOMEN to realize their worth at the voting booth, and proving that their voice/vote DOES count!
Reguardless of what any of us think at this juncture in time,...we will ALL have to take a "wait, and see" mentality...to see, if any of the campaign promises will become reality. Let us all just take the moment to embrace to significant historical step this Nation has taken towards the future of true democracy, and the dream that many of us hold dear to our hearts as to what it means for ALL humans regardless of color, and background!
Now enough of the "racial" bullshit. I, and many voted for Obama, because he was the better candidate! NUFF SAID!!!!! [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49:38 AM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
| |
|
I realize there will be wide and varied opinon regarding the result of this election. You all know where I stand and I make no bones about it. Having said this, I also realize that this Thread is for discussion. It was created to inspire debate. Darryn fully intended to challenge us as thinking individuals, not just "Metal-heads". Sometimes we rant here, sometimes we muse. Sometimes we argue, sometimes we agree. But this room always gives me something to ponder when I am done.
I feel this morning alot like I did when Clinton was first elected. I am disappointed, surely. I am not angry. I am a bit sad and I am certainly concerned but not angry. The real problem this morning is, the new president has not done anything to warrant debate yet! All we are able to do now is offer conjecture. What might happen. I guess that is a reason to chat but I do not see much debate in it at this point.
I will not rail against the other party. I do not believe that will be constructive and I am not a poor loser. More importantly, I do NOT knock the captain of the team on which I play. I may not have voted for him, but you will never hear me make nasty comments about the US President while he is in office. I did not do it to Carter nor Clinton and Iwon't do it now. I do not see that as productive and certainly not wise. We as a country should always stand as one. That is something the "other side" has never learned.
As for why I am sad, there is a very good reason. John McCain is an American hero. A real-live hero. He was captured by the enemy, tortured. Refused to be a tool for propaganda (Right, Jane??) and endured hell for love of this great nation. And what did this country do? They turned their collective backs on him and picked a "rock star". So be it. As I have said over and over the last year or two, this is what happens when we have a voting public that looks to the likes of someone that calls himself "P Diddy" or "Snoop" for their direction. This is NOT Obama's fault, this is the fault of allowing idiots and children to vote.
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Edited at: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:35:13 AM |
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| [_strat_] Friday, November 07, 2008 9:43:44 AM | |
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Otherwise, then he or she might as well walk accorss the chamber floor and align him or herself with the opposite party.
Well, yeah, that would be the best thing to do, but try telling the politicians about it.
The problem with having a democracy with political parties is that it stereotypes people who have similar but not identical views (makes similar people look identical when it comes to political views). There are dissidents in every party, and practicly every political party in the world has its own subdivisions, as to which members are more right, left, pacifist, militant, proggressive, conservative, etc. Imo, only a party that is reasonably unanimous in the major issues can make any headroads. The answer would be just to have as many parties as possible to ensure as much plurality as possible, but that would lead to more bickering, as the power would have to be shared between more people.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by BLOOD SUCKER Esquire from Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:46:37 PM)| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | Here is my reasoning. You have a Republican that is more...Democratic than Right-Wing. And then you have a Democrat that is more Right Wing then leftist. Saying this.....how on earth can anyting be accomplished when you have such strong views as is the Red-stateb Blue-state logic....but yet you have elected individuals that neither represent a soft or hard line on either side. And similar members on this same side.....that are not quite as committed? I'm not sure if my point came accross in an understandable manner. But if you have too many points of view within a given party that are in conflict with each other, how can the party make any headroads? I'm not suggesting that the Majority or Minority whip stifles progress. Nor am I suggesting that independent votes cripple the party's stance and principle. However, what I am concluding is that within a given party, each individual must mainatain some form of allegiance with the party that he has alligned with and has achieved membership with. Otherwise, then he or she might as well walk accorss the chamber floor and align him or herself with the opposite party. I hope I got my point accross.
a. Hammerstein 
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:56:00 PM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Friday, November 07, 2008 7:50:14 AM | |
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HEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who you calling Rush Limbaugh?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by METAL MELTDOWN from Friday, November 07, 2008 7:44:20 AM)| | | METAL MELTDOWN wrote: | | This is why I have shut up in this thread. This is the Rush Limbaugh thread and all of those with a different opinion need to stay out...See ya
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | MM, you have spent entirely TOO MUCH time in your basement...or you just painted. In either case, you need a walk in the fresh air. OR some good drugs. HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have NOTHING to say.
BS, in general, people in the Congress and Senate do vote along party lines. There are the occasional exceptions but, by and large, it tends to work out that way. If I understand you correctly, you are basically asking "how does anything get done?" Well my friend, that is a BIG problem. Bickering and filibusters and whatnot cause a tremendous amount of trouble. Worse, there is so much 'pork' attached to otherwise good bills that they rarely get through in a timely fashion. Politicians have to answer to their constituency and so they tend to try to load up bills with pet projects. Such is the way of the "system".
I have yet to see any one particular politician vote in direct accordance with their party platform in EVERY case. Just does not ALWAYS happen.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | Here is my reasoning. You have a Republican that is more...Democratic than Right-Wing. And then you have a Democrat that is more Right Wing then leftist. Saying this.....how on earth can anyting be accomplished when you have such strong views as is the Red-stateb Blue-state logic....but yet you have elected individuals that neither represent a soft or hard line on either side. And similar members on this same side.....that are not quite as committed? I'm not sure if my point came accross in an understandable manner. But if you have too many points of view within a given party that are in conflict with each other, how can the party make any headroads? I'm not suggesting that the Majority or Minority whip stifles progress. Nor am I suggesting that independent votes cripple the party's stance and principle. However, what I am concluding is that within a given party, each individual must mainatain some form of allegiance with the party that he has alligned with and has achieved membership with. Otherwise, then he or she might as well walk accorss the chamber floor and align him or herself with the opposite party. I hope I got my point accross.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:56:00 PM |
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| [METAL MELTDOWN] Friday, November 07, 2008 7:44:20 AM | |
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This is why I have shut up in this thread. This is the Rush Limbaugh thread and all of those with a different opinion need to stay out...See ya
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:22:41 PM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | MM, you have spent entirely TOO MUCH time in your basement...or you just painted. In either case, you need a walk in the fresh air. OR some good drugs. HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have NOTHING to say.
BS, in general, people in the Congress and Senate do vote along party lines. There are the occasional exceptions but, by and large, it tends to work out that way. If I understand you correctly, you are basically asking "how does anything get done?" Well my friend, that is a BIG problem. Bickering and filibusters and whatnot cause a tremendous amount of trouble. Worse, there is so much 'pork' attached to otherwise good bills that they rarely get through in a timely fashion. Politicians have to answer to their constituency and so they tend to try to load up bills with pet projects. Such is the way of the "system".
I have yet to see any one particular politician vote in direct accordance with their party platform in EVERY case. Just does not ALWAYS happen.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | Here is my reasoning. You have a Republican that is more...Democratic than Right-Wing. And then you have a Democrat that is more Right Wing then leftist. Saying this.....how on earth can anyting be accomplished when you have such strong views as is the Red-stateb Blue-state logic....but yet you have elected individuals that neither represent a soft or hard line on either side. And similar members on this same side.....that are not quite as committed? I'm not sure if my point came accross in an understandable manner. But if you have too many points of view within a given party that are in conflict with each other, how can the party make any headroads? I'm not suggesting that the Majority or Minority whip stifles progress. Nor am I suggesting that independent votes cripple the party's stance and principle. However, what I am concluding is that within a given party, each individual must mainatain some form of allegiance with the party that he has alligned with and has achieved membership with. Otherwise, then he or she might as well walk accorss the chamber floor and align him or herself with the opposite party. I hope I got my point accross.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:56:00 PM |
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| [~ MG_Metalgoddess~] Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:00:12 PM | |
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I love that.. I laughed so hard when I read this stuff... ROFL... My sides hurt...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:22:41 PM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | MM, you have spent entirely TOO MUCH time in your basement...or you just painted. In either case, you need a walk in the fresh air. OR some good drugs. HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have NOTHING to say.
BS, in general, people in the Congress and Senate do vote along party lines. There are the occasional exceptions but, by and large, it tends to work out that way. If I understand you correctly, you are basically asking "how does anything get done?" Well my friend, that is a BIG problem. Bickering and filibusters and whatnot cause a tremendous amount of trouble. Worse, there is so much 'pork' attached to otherwise good bills that they rarely get through in a timely fashion. Politicians have to answer to their constituency and so they tend to try to load up bills with pet projects. Such is the way of the "system".
I have yet to see any one particular politician vote in direct accordance with their party platform in EVERY case. Just does not ALWAYS happen.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | Here is my reasoning. You have a Republican that is more...Democratic than Right-Wing. And then you have a Democrat that is more Right Wing then leftist. Saying this.....how on earth can anyting be accomplished when you have such strong views as is the Red-stateb Blue-state logic....but yet you have elected individuals that neither represent a soft or hard line on either side. And similar members on this same side.....that are not quite as committed? I'm not sure if my point came accross in an understandable manner. But if you have too many points of view within a given party that are in conflict with each other, how can the party make any headroads? I'm not suggesting that the Majority or Minority whip stifles progress. Nor am I suggesting that independent votes cripple the party's stance and principle. However, what I am concluding is that within a given party, each individual must mainatain some form of allegiance with the party that he has alligned with and has achieved membership with. Otherwise, then he or she might as well walk accorss the chamber floor and align him or herself with the opposite party. I hope I got my point accross.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:56:00 PM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:22:41 PM | |
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MM, you have spent entirely TOO MUCH time in your basement...or you just painted. In either case, you need a walk in the fresh air. OR some good drugs. HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have NOTHING to say.
BS, in general, people in the Congress and Senate do vote along party lines. There are the occasional exceptions but, by and large, it tends to work out that way. If I understand you correctly, you are basically asking "how does anything get done?" Well my friend, that is a BIG problem. Bickering and filibusters and whatnot cause a tremendous amount of trouble. Worse, there is so much 'pork' attached to otherwise good bills that they rarely get through in a timely fashion. Politicians have to answer to their constituency and so they tend to try to load up bills with pet projects. Such is the way of the "system".
I have yet to see any one particular politician vote in direct accordance with their party platform in EVERY case. Just does not ALWAYS happen.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by BLOOD SUCKER Esquire from Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:46:37 PM)| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | Here is my reasoning. You have a Republican that is more...Democratic than Right-Wing. And then you have a Democrat that is more Right Wing then leftist. Saying this.....how on earth can anyting be accomplished when you have such strong views as is the Red-stateb Blue-state logic....but yet you have elected individuals that neither represent a soft or hard line on either side. And similar members on this same side.....that are not quite as committed? I'm not sure if my point came accross in an understandable manner. But if you have too many points of view within a given party that are in conflict with each other, how can the party make any headroads? I'm not suggesting that the Majority or Minority whip stifles progress. Nor am I suggesting that independent votes cripple the party's stance and principle. However, what I am concluding is that within a given party, each individual must mainatain some form of allegiance with the party that he has alligned with and has achieved membership with. Otherwise, then he or she might as well walk accorss the chamber floor and align him or herself with the opposite party. I hope I got my point accross.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:56:00 PM |
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| [BLOOD SUCKER Esquire] Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:46:37 PM | |
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Here is my reasoning. You have a Republican that is more...Democratic than Right-Wing. And then you have a Democrat that is more Right Wing then leftist. Saying this.....how on earth can anyting be accomplished when you have such strong views as is the Red-stateb Blue-state logic....but yet you have elected individuals that neither represent a soft or hard line on either side. And similar members on this same side.....that are not quite as committed? I'm not sure if my point came accross in an understandable manner. But if you have too many points of view within a given party that are in conflict with each other, how can the party make any headroads? I'm not suggesting that the Majority or Minority whip stifles progress. Nor am I suggesting that independent votes cripple the party's stance and principle. However, what I am concluding is that within a given party, each individual must mainatain some form of allegiance with the party that he has alligned with and has achieved membership with. Otherwise, then he or she might as well walk accorss the chamber floor and align him or herself with the opposite party. I hope I got my point accross.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:56:00 PM |
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| [METAL MELTDOWN] Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:13:22 PM | |
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YES....My insiders tell me that all of those are correct they ALL saw it coming!!!
I would like to say this and then make yet another departure from a thread that I am most certainly not welcomed in and one I really dont give a fuck about being in......
Something to think about....
Why did I vote for Obama....Hmmm, lets see......I never cared too much for either Mccain or Obama but I looked at it this way. I voted for Obama because he was black!!
How many women out there landed a job that was traditionally handed to men back when all you saw were men in CEO positions and they, women, excelled at it. Why??? Because they had something to prove to the men in the world, yet they were just as qualified and held the same credentials but because they were women werent given the oppty to do it...but when oppty presented itself they did excel and more and more women were offered those positions....
Obama has a lot to prove to everyone not only in this country but in the world. This is our nations 1st black president and I firmly believe that he will be on his toes and prove to everyone his ability to do the job because everybody is watching waiting for him to fuck up!!! give the man some time everyone before you condemn him. My feeling is that we will all be pleasantly surprised........
OK Freeze....I am outta here again.....
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:46:17 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You TELL 'em, MM!!!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow!
so Bush "saw it coming",huh?? And I suppose Adams and Madison saw the British coming when they refused to fight Napoleon? And perhaps Lincoln saw the Civil War coming? And Clinton certainly saw 911 coming when he screwed up in Somolia??? You are KILLING me, dude!!!!!!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| [Head banger] Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:29:51 PM | |
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but first, define the center, before we go left and right. its a radicaly different place as you move about the globe/
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:04:15 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | BS, you are fairly close with your assumption. The term democratic conservative simply relates to a Democrat with conservative views (less government, less taxes, lower spending, less social programs, etc). That is a rather simplistic definition but fairly accurate.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [_strat_] Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:04:55 PM | |
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Sorry, we only take cash.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:57:23 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | And so it shall be, my Lord. I shall wire the money forthwith. Please post your bank account and routing numbers.......
HHHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Aha, so thats the way of it...
You are forgiven my son. But since you were insolent to correct me, I order you to pay a fine of 1000$. Me, your lord, comands it.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | As I most certainly do NOT want to be suspected as part of this 'conspiracy', I will accept your response as the absolute truth and ask your forgiveness for my insolence.
| | | stratlover wrote: | | I assure you, strating is quite correct, and if anyone tells you otherwise, they are obviously a part of the infamous anti-me conspiracy.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You're right! It IS Somalia...Oh, and by the by, it is staRting.... BWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Love ya, strat!!!!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, there you have it. Im strating to think that even the "lesser" of two evils is inaccurate.
Oh, and btw. its Somalia, not Somolia.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | BS, you are fairly close with your assumption. The term democratic conservative simply relates to a Democrat with conservative views (less government, less taxes, lower spending, less social programs, etc). That is a rather simplistic definition but fairly accurate.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:57:23 AM | |
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And so it shall be, my Lord. I shall wire the money forthwith. Please post your bank account and routing numbers.......
HHHAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:52:18 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | Aha, so thats the way of it...
You are forgiven my son. But since you were insolent to correct me, I order you to pay a fine of 1000$. Me, your lord, comands it.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | As I most certainly do NOT want to be suspected as part of this 'conspiracy', I will accept your response as the absolute truth and ask your forgiveness for my insolence.
| | | stratlover wrote: | | I assure you, strating is quite correct, and if anyone tells you otherwise, they are obviously a part of the infamous anti-me conspiracy.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You're right! It IS Somalia...Oh, and by the by, it is staRting.... BWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Love ya, strat!!!!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, there you have it. Im strating to think that even the "lesser" of two evils is inaccurate.
Oh, and btw. its Somalia, not Somolia.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | BS, you are fairly close with your assumption. The term democratic conservative simply relates to a Democrat with conservative views (less government, less taxes, lower spending, less social programs, etc). That is a rather simplistic definition but fairly accurate.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [_strat_] Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:52:18 AM | |
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Aha, so thats the way of it...
You are forgiven my son. But since you were insolent to correct me, I order you to pay a fine of 1000$. Me, your lord, comands it.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:48:54 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | As I most certainly do NOT want to be suspected as part of this 'conspiracy', I will accept your response as the absolute truth and ask your forgiveness for my insolence.
| | | stratlover wrote: | | I assure you, strating is quite correct, and if anyone tells you otherwise, they are obviously a part of the infamous anti-me conspiracy.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You're right! It IS Somalia...Oh, and by the by, it is staRting.... BWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Love ya, strat!!!!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, there you have it. Im strating to think that even the "lesser" of two evils is inaccurate.
Oh, and btw. its Somalia, not Somolia.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | BS, you are fairly close with your assumption. The term democratic conservative simply relates to a Democrat with conservative views (less government, less taxes, lower spending, less social programs, etc). That is a rather simplistic definition but fairly accurate.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:48:54 AM | |
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As I most certainly do NOT want to be suspected as part of this 'conspiracy', I will accept your response as the absolute truth and ask your forgiveness for my insolence.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:46:01 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | I assure you, strating is quite correct, and if anyone tells you otherwise, they are obviously a part of the infamous anti-me conspiracy.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You're right! It IS Somalia...Oh, and by the by, it is staRting.... BWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Love ya, strat!!!!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, there you have it. Im strating to think that even the "lesser" of two evils is inaccurate.
Oh, and btw. its Somalia, not Somolia.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | BS, you are fairly close with your assumption. The term democratic conservative simply relates to a Democrat with conservative views (less government, less taxes, lower spending, less social programs, etc). That is a rather simplistic definition but fairly accurate.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [_strat_] Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:46:01 AM | |
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I assure you, strating is quite correct, and if anyone tells you otherwise, they are obviously a part of the infamous anti-me conspiracy.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:21:28 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You're right! It IS Somalia...Oh, and by the by, it is staRting.... BWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Love ya, strat!!!!
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, there you have it. Im strating to think that even the "lesser" of two evils is inaccurate.
Oh, and btw. its Somalia, not Somolia.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | BS, you are fairly close with your assumption. The term democratic conservative simply relates to a Democrat with conservative views (less government, less taxes, lower spending, less social programs, etc). That is a rather simplistic definition but fairly accurate.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:21:28 AM | |
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You're right! It IS Somalia...Oh, and by the by, it is staRting.... BWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Love ya, strat!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:18:06 AM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | Well, there you have it. Im strating to think that even the "lesser" of two evils is inaccurate.
Oh, and btw. its Somalia, not Somolia.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | BS, you are fairly close with your assumption. The term democratic conservative simply relates to a Democrat with conservative views (less government, less taxes, lower spending, less social programs, etc). That is a rather simplistic definition but fairly accurate.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [_strat_] Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:18:06 AM | |
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Well, there you have it. Im strating to think that even the "lesser" of two evils is inaccurate.
Oh, and btw. its Somalia, not Somolia.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:04:15 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | BS, you are fairly close with your assumption. The term democratic conservative simply relates to a Democrat with conservative views (less government, less taxes, lower spending, less social programs, etc). That is a rather simplistic definition but fairly accurate.
| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:04:15 AM | |
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BS, you are fairly close with your assumption. The term democratic conservative simply relates to a Democrat with conservative views (less government, less taxes, lower spending, less social programs, etc). That is a rather simplistic definition but fairly accurate.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by BLOOD SUCKER Esquire from Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:00 AM)| | | BLOOD SUCKER Esquire wrote: | | The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [BLOOD SUCKER Esquire] Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:00 AM | |
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The terms....Conservative Democrat and Democratic Conservative. Please explain this. Is this right-of-center, or left-of-center governing? This was mentioned a few times on the BBC World yesterday in regards to Obama. Thank you.
a. Hammerstein
Edited at: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:58:45 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:46:17 AM | |
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You TELL 'em, MM!!!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow!
so Bush "saw it coming",huh?? And I suppose Adams and Madison saw the British coming when they refused to fight Napoleon? And perhaps Lincoln saw the Civil War coming? And Clinton certainly saw 911 coming when he screwed up in Somolia??? You are KILLING me, dude!!!!!!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| [METAL MELTDOWN] Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:42:15 AM | |
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Read a little closer DUDE.. my post was intended to be sacarsm. Do you think I believe he started WWII??? Hmm
No I do not think the credit problem was Bush's... BUT his admin saw it coming.....
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Darth_Painkiller_0870 from Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:36:23 AM)| | | Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: | | The credit problem was Bush's fault???? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh please, enlighten us MM! I have to read that!
| | | METAL MELTDOWN wrote: | | On the contrary...I quite like bush.........
OH...... you mean THAT Bush!!!
YES the credit problem was Bush's fault as was WWII, the Spanish Inquisition and that case of genital warts that Bob gave to Alice back in 1967.....
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wondered if you were ever going to show up and actually say something. WOW.
Look man, I know you are a Bush Hater. You never tried to hide it. Unfortunately, it is NOT Bush's fault. At least not all of it. Like I have been saying for a LONG time, the blame for the crap we are in lies firmly on the heads of the "buying public".
It is SO easy to blame the president. He is "in charge". He is 'responsible". Well, OK. Maybe so but he certainly did not take a gun and hold it to the heads of the MILLIONS of MORONS that signed crappy mortgages for homes the KNEW they could NOT afford!!! Bush NEVER told ANYONE to buy crap on credit that they could NOT afford to pay for with CASH. It all comes down to being financially responsible for YOURSELF. It really amazes me how many Americans did NOT give back that "lousy" stimulus check you mentioned! Hmm.. interesting indeed.
I do not need to defend Bush any longer, as I do not believe he did a great job. But he did not destroy this country as so many "haters" would have us believe. WE did it to OURSELVES. Take a look at the amount of CREDIT BURDEN the average American has, man! Is THAT Bush's fault too????? Please!
| | | METAL MELTDOWN wrote: | | I should have stayed out of this thread.....
WTF is all of you worried about? Take a look at the last 4 or 8 years in this country and tell me, seriously, how any of you can think that more of the same would be better. Give Obama a fucking break and some time, then open your mouths and bitch if he makes it worse and I really dont think that is possible.
Everyone was beating off over bush winning the last time and look at the state we are in today. If he were the CEO of some fortune 500 company, he would have been drummed out years ago and please spare me the "he inherited this mess" B.S.. Even if he did, not much was done about it....OH.....I am sorry, I forgot about my 300 economic stimulus check. Boy that sure saved my ass!!!!!
| | | Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: | | | Okay...the socialist won. We're doomed. Check back with me in about 3 years if you think I'm kidding. |
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| [Deep Freeze] Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:34:39 AM | |
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Yes.
Yes.
HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| [Head banger] Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:29:48 AM | |
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heck, as I recall there is nothing he can do untill Jan, no?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:22:38 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Quite correct, strat. Obama is a liberal. I do not believe he is a "socialist". He made a few comments during the campaign that sounded socialist, but he clearly is not. Not in the truest sense of the word. As for being the "lesser" of two "evils", that is strictly a matter of perspective.
As I said yesterday, he has not done anything, yet. We are a LONG way from having anything with which to discuss. |
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| [Head banger] Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:29:13 AM | |
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heck, as I recall there is nothing he can do untill Jan, no?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:22:38 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Quite correct, strat. Obama is a liberal. I do not believe he is a "socialist". He made a few comments during the campaign that sounded socialist, but he clearly is not. Not in the truest sense of the word. As for being the "lesser" of two "evils", that is strictly a matter of perspective.
As I said yesterday, he has not done anything, yet. We are a LONG way from having anything with which to discuss. |
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