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[i flick my boogers] Thursday, January 21, 2021 12:12:59 PM
Hats off to President Trump and all his accomplishments of the last four years and putting America first !
President Trump is legendary...
Edited at: Thursday, January 21, 2021 12:21:24 PM
[PRIEST_HAMMER] Sunday, August 19, 2018 4:07:38 PM
I just finished reading "Demonic" by Ann Coulter. Excellant book. Right up there with her other book that I enjoyed a lot, "Slander." In it, she talks about how the Left are the party of the mob. Not the organised crime Mob but the mob of the violent protesters. The Left is always wagging their fingers saying, "the Right are violent people inspiring violence towards the American people..." But if you really look at it from hindsight the Left are the ones who are always throwing punches. They're the ones always throwing rocks, bricks, bats, etc.
I'm not a person who likes to argue politics. I stay out of that avenue. If people were to ask me where I stand on issues I gladly tell them. Kind of like "Don't ask, don't tell." Lol. If there's one thing I learned from listening to Metal is that I have the freedom to speak my mind and no one needs to know what I think - but if I'm goaded into a battle of wits and words I stand my ground.
If you ever notice that the Left is always repeating themselves.
The Left never read Conservative books. They claim we are racists but yet they don't know a things about us because they don't read books. If they read Conservative books they would understand and respect the rationale behind our arguments. We read their books and watch their media and we find ignorance, malice, and fault with their reasoning.
Democrats are all members of the Ku Klux Klan. They formed the group. They're still private members of the group. The KKK originally was created to torment Republicans then they moved on to minorities. These days they torment everyone on the Right. I will never vote for a Democrat even if I agreed with him/her on an issue. The pain cuts too deep for me and I'm not a minority.
METAL WARRIORS DOMINATE! ! ! !
[Tyrant] Sunday, July 29, 2012 8:39:22 AM
Edited at: Sunday, July 29, 2012 8:41:51 AM
[Tyrant] Sunday, July 29, 2012 8:38:02 AM
In Australia , politics has hit a new low, nobody has the balls to do anything, most of us id say, are just board to death !
Tyrant ..
Never turn your back, on the Ripper ! T.O.
[Budred] Wednesday, November 09, 2011 8:59:36 AM
Whoa man, were not all douche-bags.
I'm with you man, I voted yes on that shit.
Ohioans- what a bunch of douchebags ! Voting down Issue 2 "collective Bargaining" How many people in the world accrue sick days, have taxes fund there retirement plan and don't have to make a profit to get paid ? My city is broke and the police chief retired and has a full year of sick days we have to pay him for WTF !!! THINK PEOPLE!!! Edited at: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 8:29:30 AM
[METALMANJP] Wednesday, November 09, 2011 8:28:53 AM
Ohioans- what a bunch of douchebags ! Voting down Issue 2 "collective Bargaining" How many people in the world accrue sick days, have taxes fund there retirement plan and don't have to make a profit to get paid ? My city is broke and the police chief retired and has a full year of sick days we have to pay him for WTF !!! THINK PEOPLE!!! Edited at: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 8:29:30 AM
[metallo] Wednesday, October 20, 2010 2:22:32 PM
What to say. Only one name: BERLUSCONI. What a pity !!!!! Poor Italy, but Italians once did it better, now do it worst. COME ON, WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Budred] Tuesday, September 28, 2010 7:00:38 AM
No but I may look it up. I love that guy. They took him out of our paper over a year ago and I've kind of forgotten about him.
In my (personal) opinion I think this man makes alot of sense. I never considered him a Democrat or Republican because
he just speaks the truth. F/Glenn Beck, Billo the clown, or MSNBC or anyone else(media) taking a side one way or the other.
We're being destoyed by our government and our corporations period. Neither side is doing anything but causing division in
this country.(Rember: Divided We Fall!!!) There is an article out today talking about the gap between rich and poor is greater
than it's ever been. (REALLY!!!)(How could that be?) (Not because of corporations?) Charley Reese points out what's wrong
and provides good arguments as to why he's right. Pay attention to this man. Read some of his articles and you'll see what I mean.
Was that a rant? I haven't done that for awhile.
I'll stop now.[Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by METALMANJP from Tuesday, September 28, 2010 6:39:09 AM)
METALMANJP wrote:
Has anyone read the article "545 PEOPLE" by Charlie Reese. If you live in the US you should. It's time to clean house.
Edited at: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 7:03:06 AM
[METALMANJP] Tuesday, September 28, 2010 6:39:09 AM
Has anyone read the article "545 PEOPLE" by Charlie Reese. If you live in the US you should. It's time to clean house.
[guitardude] Saturday, August 28, 2010 3:57:44 PM
If BP was one of the boycotting companies, you can breathe a sigh of relief. They would find a way to contaminate that beautiful country you have there. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN from Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:28:01 PM)
Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN wrote:
4 MORE U.S. COMPANIES JOIN BOYCOTT OF ALBERTA OIL SANDS FUEL.
[RIFFY] Saturday, August 28, 2010 12:57:48 PM
YUP ITS PRETTY MUCH STILL THE SAME HERE,,LOL
[Soylentgreen4u] Saturday, August 28, 2010 8:27:49 AM
OH ABSOLUTELY... BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES AND LIARS RUNNING THE SHOW... BUT THEY BOTH SEVERELY DAMAGED THE ENVIRONMENT...BUT UNTIL THE BASTARDS CAN RING OUT EVERY PENNY,
THEY'LL KEEP SCREWING THINGS UP...THE WAY OF THE HUMAN RACE IT SEEMS...GREED,GREED,
GREED. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Head banger from Friday, August 27, 2010 6:20:44 AM)
Head banger wrote:
wonder how many will boycott offshore drilling? in just 90 days created more polution than the oilsands have managed in 30 years.
Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN wrote:
4 MORE U.S. COMPANIES JOIN BOYCOTT OF ALBERTA OIL SANDS FUEL.
[Head banger] Friday, August 27, 2010 6:20:44 AM
wonder how many will boycott offshore drilling? in just 90 days created more polution than the oilsands have managed in 30 years. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN from Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:28:01 PM)
Soylentgreen4u a.k.a. theWOLFMAN wrote:
4 MORE U.S. COMPANIES JOIN BOYCOTT OF ALBERTA OIL SANDS FUEL.
[Soylentgreen4u] Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:28:01 PM
4 MORE U.S. COMPANIES JOIN BOYCOTT OF ALBERTA OIL SANDS FUEL.
[guitardude] Sunday, August 15, 2010 5:00:47 PM
Funny you mention Clinton in that manner, the man had the fastest zipper in the west!!
I understand the issue was much bigger, I just didn`t want to type all afternoon.
I can`t imagine what the economic impact has been after all these years with essentially civil war lurking around the corner. My curiosity has been peaked by all this and I must read more about it. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by _strat_ from Sunday, August 15, 2010 1:41:29 PM)
_strat_ wrote:
Ah well... Lets not try to make this into a flame war...
Now, the issue is much more complicated than that.
First of all, a bit of a correction: when we say "former Yugoslavian" we usualy (at least here, in former Yugoslavia) refer to the period before 1991, when the country was still whole. What was around in 1999 was called Yugoslavia, but actualy it was only a small remnant of it, comprising only two out of former six republics and less than half of the population of the original state. Thats why we refer to it as Serbia and Montenegro, or just Serbia.
Now to the conflict. Kosovo was not invaded, not in the usual meaning of the word - it was an autonomous province within Serbia, and the federal government in Belgrade had full jurisdiction over it. Federal military was always stationed there.
So much for terminology. As for the rest, yes, it did end quickly - at least the military part of it. The problem is that Kosovo is now a frozen conflict, that doesnt look like it will be properly resolved any time soon. And it certainly is creating new tensions between Russia and the West (since Russians and Serbs are traditional allies). Not to mention new hatred towards Albanians (which were always the least popular nationality in our former state; now even more so).
Now, as far as the intervention goes... Shit, I still say that a certain horny bastard from a certain house that as it happens is painted white... Should pay for it. Preferably with his head.
guitardude wrote:
Strat
Just in case you did drift over here, I read up on the Nato attacks. It was only after lenghty negotiations that were obviously doomed that Nato acted to stop the former Yugoslavian military from attacking Kosovo, they had a massive troop and equipment build up around Kosovo, action had to be taken. Now should it have came to that, no way! But unfortunately, the powers that be have these great arsenal`s at their disposal`s and feel the need to prove themselves. Surprisingly , even the French backed the Nato troops.
Though Russia`s stance could have very well started the cold war all over again. Luckily it ended quickly. And at least all the major world powers are still friends. Theorectically anyway.
[_strat_] Sunday, August 15, 2010 1:41:29 PM
Ah well... Lets not try to make this into a flame war...
Now, the issue is much more complicated than that.
First of all, a bit of a correction: when we say "former Yugoslavian" we usualy (at least here, in former Yugoslavia) refer to the period before 1991, when the country was still whole. What was around in 1999 was called Yugoslavia, but actualy it was only a small remnant of it, comprising only two out of former six republics and less than half of the population of the original state. Thats why we refer to it as Serbia and Montenegro, or just Serbia.
Now to the conflict. Kosovo was not invaded, not in the usual meaning of the word - it was an autonomous province within Serbia, and the federal government in Belgrade had full jurisdiction over it. Federal military was always stationed there.
So much for terminology. As for the rest, yes, it did end quickly - at least the military part of it. The problem is that Kosovo is now a frozen conflict, that doesnt look like it will be properly resolved any time soon. And it certainly is creating new tensions between Russia and the West (since Russians and Serbs are traditional allies). Not to mention new hatred towards Albanians (which were always the least popular nationality in our former state; now even more so).
Now, as far as the intervention goes... Shit, I still say that a certain horny bastard from a certain house that as it happens is painted white... Should pay for it. Preferably with his head.
Strat
Just in case you did drift over here, I read up on the Nato attacks. It was only after lenghty negotiations that were obviously doomed that Nato acted to stop the former Yugoslavian military from attacking Kosovo, they had a massive troop and equipment build up around Kosovo, action had to be taken. Now should it have came to that, no way! But unfortunately, the powers that be have these great arsenal`s at their disposal`s and feel the need to prove themselves. Surprisingly , even the French backed the Nato troops.
Though Russia`s stance could have very well started the cold war all over again. Luckily it ended quickly. And at least all the major world powers are still friends. Theorectically anyway.
[guitardude] Sunday, August 15, 2010 1:23:49 PM
Strat
Just in case you did drift over here, I read up on the Nato attacks. It was only after lenghty negotiations that were obviously doomed that Nato acted to stop the former Yugoslavian military from attacking Kosovo, they had a massive troop and equipment build up around Kosovo, action had to be taken. Now should it have came to that, no way! But unfortunately, the powers that be have these great arsenal`s at their disposal`s and feel the need to prove themselves. Surprisingly , even the French backed the Nato troops.
Though Russia`s stance could have very well started the cold war all over again. Luckily it ended quickly. And at least all the major world powers are still friends. Theorectically anyway.
[Palmer Griffiths] Sunday, May 23, 2010 9:26:05 AM
I thought this would be a pretty good link for this thread. Some Commentary from the Late Great George Carlin.
[Head banger] Wednesday, April 14, 2010 7:23:17 PM
well, here banks make more than oil companies, but.... what to do about it. the real thing would be to eliminate all the tax dodges and make the tax code one page long. but that wont happen. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by spapad from Wednesday, April 14, 2010 6:59:06 PM)
spapad wrote:
You can't see the vid? Well, essentially it said that we can't tax the rich, we are just supposed to wait until their trousers grow so heavy from money that some coins fall out and the rat hunting little guys might grab a few coins, and we cant tax the middle class because they are the ones who get things done in this country, but we should go after the poor who earn less than 30,000 per year and if for tax deductions and excetera, they actually end up getting a refund then they are the ones who should be serving in the military. I only earn 24,000 a year and support a child and manage. So by the conservatives standards I would be going to Iraq. Good idea!
BTW Exxon made more than any company last year, and because of off shore contracts paid not one penny of tax to the U.S.
Bout summs it up.
Head banger wrote:
wish I could see it. not available in canada. that pisses me off.
spapad wrote:
HA!!! The rat chasers!!! Gotta love it! I guess I'm going to Irag because I make less than 30,000 a year and am a single Mom! I'm scum!! lol
You can't see the vid? Well, essentially it said that we can't tax the rich, we are just supposed to wait until their trousers grow so heavy from money that some coins fall out and the rat hunting little guys might grab a few coins, and we cant tax the middle class because they are the ones who get things done in this country, but we should go after the poor who earn less than 30,000 per year and if for tax deductions and excetera, they actually end up getting a refund then they are the ones who should be serving in the military. I only earn 24,000 a year and support a child and manage. So by the conservatives standards I would be going to Iraq. Good idea!
BTW Exxon made more than any company last year, and because of off shore contracts paid not one penny of tax to the U.S.
Bout summs it up. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Head banger from Wednesday, April 14, 2010 6:45:33 PM)
Head banger wrote:
wish I could see it. not available in canada. that pisses me off.
spapad wrote:
HA!!! The rat chasers!!! Gotta love it! I guess I'm going to Irag because I make less than 30,000 a year and am a single Mom! I'm scum!! lol
[Head banger] Wednesday, April 14, 2010 6:45:33 PM
wish I could see it. not available in canada. that pisses me off. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by spapad from Wednesday, April 14, 2010 6:41:09 PM)
spapad wrote:
HA!!! The rat chasers!!! Gotta love it! I guess I'm going to Irag because I make less than 30,000 a year and am a single Mom! I'm scum!! lol
HA!!! The rat chasers!!! Gotta love it! I guess I'm going to Irag because I make less than 30,000 a year and am a single Mom! I'm scum!! lol [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by ron h from Wednesday, April 14, 2010 6:30:54 PM)
That was a knee slapper. I remember that. The problem with the health care reform debate here in America was that it was split into two artificial choices-let people die and go bankrupt, or insure everyone! This does not make sense. The "solution" does not address the problem, but adds more to our national ills. Every gov't agency is bleeding out of every orifice, and it is getting worse with each day (or bill) passing.
Been reading "The Creature From Jekyll Island" lately. Anybody read it? Talks about the Federal Reserve, bailouts, our money. The more one finds out about our federal reserve, fractional reserve banking, bailouts, and our debt backed currency, the more one begins to wonder how long this will all last.
Going to track down my copy of War is a Racket as well. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Head banger from Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:19:54 AM)
Head banger wrote:
ah the beauty of socialized medicine, the best treatment is not available.
Edited at: Sunday, April 11, 2010 10:59:27 PM Edited at: Sunday, April 11, 2010 11:21:00 PM
[Head banger] Wednesday, March 24, 2010 5:19:58 AM
dunno. not in a position to discuss. heard about it on the radio briefly. some woman was saying all doctors would quit seeing insured patients and that everyone would have to buy insurance, which seemed kind of contradictory. how would no doctor deal with insurance if all patients must have insurance. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by ron h from Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:17:24 PM)
ron h wrote:
Hmmmm...I'm very suprised no one has had anything to say about the new Health Care Bill that's just been passed in the good 'ol U.S. od A.
[ron h] Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:17:24 PM
Hmmmm...I'm very suprised no one has had anything to say about the new Health Care Bill that's just been passed in the good 'ol U.S. od A.
[Head banger] Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:19:54 AM
ah the beauty of socialized medicine, the best treatment is not available.
The cap should be on how much the lawyers can charge. The percentage taken by lawyers is ridiculous compared to what the claimant ends up getting.
So it's hard to have lawyers restrict lawyer earnings since most, if not all law-makers are...yes...lawyers. It's a conflict of interest and the poor man loses every time. Unless there are major riots going on for a prolonged length of time, the guys upstairs won't listen. See how easy the current administration folded because of the set up protests at local level gatherings.
[Bev] Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:33:13 AM
Almost included the cost of frivolous lawsuits but I believe a cap is in place with regard to how much a claimant is entitled? It's still an issue for physicians as insurance costs mount for them as well.
Also, is the ever present unscrupulous caregiver / insurance / pharmiceutical co men nage a trois - lol, and the predetorial nature in the way some patients' fraudulently file claims, making it more difficult for the legitimate claimant and physician to have an affordable relationship.
All these issues have been mentioned before. There will likely be no perfect healthcare system until eveyone accepts how they factor in the equation. By and large the system, as I see it anyway, attempts to level the field for all concerned. Yes, even me the middle guy. By this age I am prolly not gonna encounter any major illness. By the time I do, I will be old enough to file for medicare. Any unforseen issues, well, I should have planned well in advance for those when I was earning a decent living, right? ; )
Think that's all I have on the subject.
If you'd like to take a look at the links to HIPPA / COBRA
Any healthcare changes will come down to budget amendments. Since 2001 there have been many catestrophic events that have redirected dollars: armed conflict, hurricane(s), etc. Until the coffers are restored via tax increases, and the insurance companies and medical supply companies capping costs / wages, it will be a long road to reform.
Edited at: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:34:31 AM
[Head banger] Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:26:15 AM
I think that finding a way to cap costs, be it thru legislation or increasing competition will be the key to any healthcare changes in the US. my brother was in a car accident there years ago. trip to hospital cost 10K(car insurance paid eventualy)
itemized bill included 2 asprin fo $110. now that might have been to factor in the nurse bringing them to him, but still...
I dunno how much room there is for tax increases, but there is room to work on the cost side. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Bev from Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:21:21 AM)
Bev wrote:
Any healthcare changes will come down to budget amendments. Since 2001 there have been many catestrophic events that have redirected dollars: armed conflict, hurricane(s), etc. Until the coffers are restored via tax increases, and the insurance companies and medical supply companies capping costs / wages, it will be a long road to reform.
[Bev] Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:21:21 AM
Any healthcare changes will come down to budget amendments. Since 2001 there have been many catestrophic events that have redirected dollars: armed conflict, hurricane(s), etc. Until the coffers are restored via tax increases, and the insurance companies and medical supply companies capping costs / wages, it will be a long road to reform.
[.] Monday, September 14, 2009 8:34:38 PM
If the family won the case in court, the court costs and fees are paid by the DPW. IMO Eminent Domain should only be used when extensive studies prove there is no way around it, it should be the law of last resort.
If you become incorporated, then perhaps your roads nearby have a chance at being improved. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Monday, September 14, 2009 7:23:55 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
We just got through a BIG battle here by the Department of Public Works who wanted to do a land snatch on a farm that had been in a family for 100 years. Imminent Domain. Bunch of crap if you ask me. Right to steal someone's land for the good of the public?! They had a massive battle and the city decided to save face and build a bit down the road (who knows HOW much it cost the family to defend themselves.....signs / lawsuits / etc). Absurd.
I am really just waiting for the day when they declare my side of the street part of the "city proper" and incorporate us. Sooner or later, I'd guess. Best prepare to prove my septic system is up to par, eh?
spapad wrote:
Now here is one that gets me! As far as local Gov goes. A few years back a neighborhood got a little more upscale, and the county anounced they were putting waterlines into the area and if you could not prove you well and septic was up to par, you where going to be put on the list to be converted to the new water system. Why? Money grubbing bastards!
guidogodoy wrote:
Depends where you live, my friend. My water only comes from my taps because I have drilled a well system (yes, septic, too), I am just outside the city limits meaning lots of dirt roads that get washed out when a dog sweats, I have to pay the same garbageman personally to pick it up same as the city (literally across the street) and I pay a "rural fire tax." to even be able to call a fireman to cross the street to try and put our a fire. They seriously look up to see if you've paid your tax before coming to (hopefully) save your life. They do NOT have a good history of saving actual houses around here.
I still pay city and county taxes on top of this, mind you. We have one hospital but you really only go there if you are at death's door and they typically medivac you out to Memphis at YOUR expense...insurance or not...doesn't cover. That is yet another tax.
Don't even get me started on the potholes / roadwork around here IN the city. Like I said, all depends on where you live...
Where AmI wrote:
At local level they seem to be doing a good job, and there is more transparency. Water still comes from the taps, roads are still fixed, and taxes are still collected.
But I don't think there will be any significant change regarding health care.
[.] Monday, September 14, 2009 8:30:56 PM
You're right, Guido. If you consider you HAVE to own a vehicle to move around $, then you can consider that yet another tax $. I think you also have to have a license to drill a well $, pay a driller $ and pay to be allowed to have the well $
Septic tank has to be emptied every so often $
Are you allowed to burn your own trash so you don't have to pay for removal?
Add to that your property taxes may change $ since you did improvements on the place [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Monday, September 14, 2009 6:08:17 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Depends where you live, my friend. My water only comes from my taps because I have drilled a well system (yes, septic, too), I am just outside the city limits meaning lots of dirt roads that get washed out when a dog sweats, I have to pay the same garbageman personally to pick it up same as the city (literally across the street) and I pay a "rural fire tax." to even be able to call a fireman to cross the street to try and put our a fire. They seriously look up to see if you've paid your tax before coming to (hopefully) save your life. They do NOT have a good history of saving actual houses around here.
I still pay city and county taxes on top of this, mind you. We have one hospital but you really only go there if you are at death's door and they typically medivac you out to Memphis at YOUR expense...insurance or not...doesn't cover. That is yet another tax.
Don't even get me started on the potholes / roadwork around here IN the city. Like I said, all depends on where you live...
Where AmI wrote:
At local level they seem to be doing a good job, and there is more transparency. Water still comes from the taps, roads are still fixed, and taxes are still collected.
But I don't think there will be any significant change regarding health care.
Edited at: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:36:40 PM
[spapad] Monday, September 14, 2009 7:31:31 PM
Yep, better be ready to prove it "perks" and is sound, and that your well is clean! Politics to me always just seem very messed up, and I really can not deffend too many points as they are to ambiguous with what they do so much, I just can't get it. That is why, for the most part, I don't post here too often. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Monday, September 14, 2009 7:23:55 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
We just got through a BIG battle here by the Department of Public Works who wanted to do a land snatch on a farm that had been in a family for 100 years. Imminent Domain. Bunch of crap if you ask me. Right to steal someone's land for the good of the public?! They had a massive battle and the city decided to save face and build a bit down the road (who knows HOW much it cost the family to defend themselves.....signs / lawsuits / etc). Absurd.
I am really just waiting for the day when they declare my side of the street part of the "city proper" and incorporate us. Sooner or later, I'd guess. Best prepare to prove my septic system is up to par, eh?
spapad wrote:
Now here is one that gets me! As far as local Gov goes. A few years back a neighborhood got a little more upscale, and the county anounced they were putting waterlines into the area and if you could not prove you well and septic was up to par, you where going to be put on the list to be converted to the new water system. Why? Money grubbing bastards!
guidogodoy wrote:
Depends where you live, my friend. My water only comes from my taps because I have drilled a well system (yes, septic, too), I am just outside the city limits meaning lots of dirt roads that get washed out when a dog sweats, I have to pay the same garbageman personally to pick it up same as the city (literally across the street) and I pay a "rural fire tax." to even be able to call a fireman to cross the street to try and put our a fire. They seriously look up to see if you've paid your tax before coming to (hopefully) save your life. They do NOT have a good history of saving actual houses around here.
I still pay city and county taxes on top of this, mind you. We have one hospital but you really only go there if you are at death's door and they typically medivac you out to Memphis at YOUR expense...insurance or not...doesn't cover. That is yet another tax.
Don't even get me started on the potholes / roadwork around here IN the city. Like I said, all depends on where you live...
Where AmI wrote:
At local level they seem to be doing a good job, and there is more transparency. Water still comes from the taps, roads are still fixed, and taxes are still collected.
But I don't think there will be any significant change regarding health care.
[guidogodoy] Monday, September 14, 2009 7:23:55 PM
We just got through a BIG battle here by the Department of Public Works who wanted to do a land snatch on a farm that had been in a family for 100 years. Imminent Domain. Bunch of crap if you ask me. Right to steal someone's land for the good of the public?! They had a massive battle and the city decided to save face and build a bit down the road (who knows HOW much it cost the family to defend themselves.....signs / lawsuits / etc). Absurd.
I am really just waiting for the day when they declare my side of the street part of the "city proper" and incorporate us. Sooner or later, I'd guess. Best prepare to prove my septic system is up to par, eh? [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by spapad from Monday, September 14, 2009 7:03:20 PM)
spapad wrote:
Now here is one that gets me! As far as local Gov goes. A few years back a neighborhood got a little more upscale, and the county anounced they were putting waterlines into the area and if you could not prove you well and septic was up to par, you where going to be put on the list to be converted to the new water system. Why? Money grubbing bastards!
guidogodoy wrote:
Depends where you live, my friend. My water only comes from my taps because I have drilled a well system (yes, septic, too), I am just outside the city limits meaning lots of dirt roads that get washed out when a dog sweats, I have to pay the same garbageman personally to pick it up same as the city (literally across the street) and I pay a "rural fire tax." to even be able to call a fireman to cross the street to try and put our a fire. They seriously look up to see if you've paid your tax before coming to (hopefully) save your life. They do NOT have a good history of saving actual houses around here.
I still pay city and county taxes on top of this, mind you. We have one hospital but you really only go there if you are at death's door and they typically medivac you out to Memphis at YOUR expense...insurance or not...doesn't cover. That is yet another tax.
Don't even get me started on the potholes / roadwork around here IN the city. Like I said, all depends on where you live...
Where AmI wrote:
At local level they seem to be doing a good job, and there is more transparency. Water still comes from the taps, roads are still fixed, and taxes are still collected.
But I don't think there will be any significant change regarding health care.
[spapad] Monday, September 14, 2009 7:03:20 PM
Now here is one that gets me! As far as local Gov goes. A few years back a neighborhood got a little more upscale, and the county anounced they were putting waterlines into the area and if you could not prove you well and septic was up to par, you where going to be put on the list to be converted to the new water system. Why? Money grubbing bastards! [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Monday, September 14, 2009 6:08:17 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Depends where you live, my friend. My water only comes from my taps because I have drilled a well system (yes, septic, too), I am just outside the city limits meaning lots of dirt roads that get washed out when a dog sweats, I have to pay the same garbageman personally to pick it up same as the city (literally across the street) and I pay a "rural fire tax." to even be able to call a fireman to cross the street to try and put our a fire. They seriously look up to see if you've paid your tax before coming to (hopefully) save your life. They do NOT have a good history of saving actual houses around here.
I still pay city and county taxes on top of this, mind you. We have one hospital but you really only go there if you are at death's door and they typically medivac you out to Memphis at YOUR expense...insurance or not...doesn't cover. That is yet another tax.
Don't even get me started on the potholes / roadwork around here IN the city. Like I said, all depends on where you live...
Where AmI wrote:
At local level they seem to be doing a good job, and there is more transparency. Water still comes from the taps, roads are still fixed, and taxes are still collected.
But I don't think there will be any significant change regarding health care.
[guidogodoy] Monday, September 14, 2009 6:08:17 PM
Depends where you live, my friend. My water only comes from my taps because I have drilled a well system (yes, septic, too), I am just outside the city limits meaning lots of dirt roads that get washed out when a dog sweats, I have to pay the same garbageman personally to pick it up same as the city (literally across the street) and I pay a "rural fire tax." to even be able to call a fireman to cross the street to try and put our a fire. They seriously look up to see if you've paid your tax before coming to (hopefully) save your life. They do NOT have a good history of saving actual houses around here.
I still pay city and county taxes on top of this, mind you. We have one hospital but you really only go there if you are at death's door and they typically medivac you out to Memphis at YOUR expense...insurance or not...doesn't cover. That is yet another tax.
Don't even get me started on the potholes / roadwork around here IN the city. Like I said, all depends on where you live... [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Where AmI from Monday, September 14, 2009 5:59:26 PM)
Where AmI wrote:
At local level they seem to be doing a good job, and there is more transparency. Water still comes from the taps, roads are still fixed, and taxes are still collected.
But I don't think there will be any significant change regarding health care.
[.] Monday, September 14, 2009 5:59:26 PM
At local level they seem to be doing a good job, and there is more transparency. Water still comes from the taps, roads are still fixed, and taxes are still collected.
But I don't think there will be any significant change regarding health care.
[Head banger] Monday, September 14, 2009 9:43:59 AM
just imagine if elected officials anywhere just actualy managed to get shit done? [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Bev from Monday, September 14, 2009 8:48:53 AM)
Bev wrote:
HB, If by work you mean there is a slight chance they'll vote to put it to a vote after mid-term elections in November - lol It's still very frustrating. Admittedly, healthcare is a good stumping issue, and if handled correctly will light enough fires to get constituents on the phone; or better yet, use the very text we (here in the US) blog with, copy and paste and put in an email to representatives. One letter can be copied any number of times ...
After back reading several more times this morning though my response is gonna take a little longer. Having grown up an Army brat, I was covered 'til 23 (coverage has changed significantly for dependents since then). Working for two large global corporations well into my thirties, I also had the luxury of splitting the cost of benefits with my employers at an extremely generous rate (mid-eighties - late-nineties). Now have no coverage and fall well in the middle category WAI mentioned to much to receive govt assistance, too little to afford private ...
I do remember in between jobs in the nineties there being enacted HIPPA / COBRA for those with coverage and per-existing conditions. I want to research those again to see if there is a loophole that might help 'Freeze before I comment on that; although, I'm sure having the fire and determination he has, I'm sure he's left no stone unturned in this regard. I hope you don't mind my looking again, though : )
'til later ...
(Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, September 14, 2009 7:30:42 AM)
Head banger wrote:
well, at least there is a slight chance your government will acomplish something. ours is doomed to yammering on, untill one party forces an election which sounds like it is coming soon.
Bev wrote:
Oh my! A discussion about yammering politicians and healthcare reform. Two topics I can't pass up - lol 'Will have to wait 'til I return from dropping the youngling off at practice.
To tempt your mind though: I think this yammering has been going on while the US congress has been in recess for the Summer. So I don't believe much could have been done until they return, which I believe will be today.
K, back later y'all : )
Edited at: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:52:50 AM
[Bev] Monday, September 14, 2009 8:48:53 AM
HB, If by work you mean there is a slight chance they'll vote to put it to a vote after mid-term elections in November - lol It's still very frustrating. Admittedly, healthcare is a good stumping issue, and if handled correctly will light enough fires to get constituents on the phone; or better yet, use the very text we (here in the US) blog with, copy and paste and put in an email to representatives. One letter can be copied any number of times ...
After back reading several more times this morning though my response is gonna take a little longer. Having grown up an Army brat, I was covered 'til 23 (coverage has changed significantly for dependents since then). Working for two large global corporations well into my thirties, I also had the luxury of splitting the cost of benefits with my employers at an extremely generous rate (mid-eighties - late-nineties). Now have no coverage and fall well in the middle category WAI mentioned to much to receive govt assistance, too little to afford private ...
I do remember in between jobs in the nineties there being enacted HIPPA / COBRA for those with coverage and per-existing conditions. I want to research those again to see if there is a loophole that might help 'Freeze before I comment on that; although, I'm sure having the fire and determination he has, I'm sure he's left no stone unturned in this regard. I hope you don't mind my looking again, though : )
well, at least there is a slight chance your government will acomplish something. ours is doomed to yammering on, untill one party forces an election which sounds like it is coming soon.
Bev wrote:
Oh my! A discussion about yammering politicians and healthcare reform. Two topics I can't pass up - lol 'Will have to wait 'til I return from dropping the youngling off at practice.
To tempt your mind though: I think this yammering has been going on while the US congress has been in recess for the Summer. So I don't believe much could have been done until they return, which I believe will be today.
K, back later y'all : )
Edited at: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:52:50 AM
[Head banger] Monday, September 14, 2009 7:30:42 AM
well, at least there is a slight chance your government will acomplish something. ours is doomed to yammering on, untill one party forces an election which sounds like it is coming soon. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Bev from Monday, September 14, 2009 6:21:53 AM)
Bev wrote:
Oh my! A discussion about yammering politicians and healthcare reform. Two topics I can't pass up - lol 'Will have to wait 'til I return from dropping the youngling off at practice.
To tempt your mind though: I think this yammering has been going on while the US congress has been in recess for the Summer. So I don't believe much could have been done until they return, which I believe will be today.
K, back later y'all : )
[Bev] Monday, September 14, 2009 6:21:53 AM
Oh my! A discussion about yammering politicians and healthcare reform. Two topics I can't pass up - lol 'Will have to wait 'til I return from dropping the youngling off at practice.
To tempt your mind though: I think this yammering has been going on while the US congress has been in recess for the Summer. So I don't believe much could have been done until they return, which I believe will be today.
I have read that in many places Freeze - Obama needs to get the balls to just do something about it. Thanks for your comments, that makes a lot of sense to me, and I agree, the fact that the US can spend shit loads invading countries etc, but it's own citizens don't get healthcare as a right, is absolutely ridiculous. I am also sorry to hear that the Princess isn't well and no one will help you guys out health care wise
Deep Freeze wrote:
Holy CRAP!!! Guido..? In the SOCIAL Thread?!??!?!?!?!? HA!!!!!!!!!!!! I have seen it all now! GREAT comments from all, I must say. Now for MINE!!!;
Most of you here know my situation and the series of events that led me to where I am today. The "system" is a nightmare for those that really need it...at least from my experience. Now then, I say this only because I went through a HORRIBLE experience, emerged on the other side and now have to watch as a loved one is beaten down. You see, I have reached the point where there is nothing more for me to worry about. But, the Princess is gravely ill and NO insurance company will take her. Not at ANY price. She requires monthy medications and phlebotomies once every three months or so and NO ONE will help us. No one.
We live in the greatest, richest most powerful country on earth and yet our citizens do not have health care as a RIGHT???? I find that deplorable. As far as paying for it, do any of you know the exact number of "pet" projects and "pork" that are funded every year?? And that is only the start. Waste in government is well documented. We can blow up other people very well and with great precision but we cannot care for our own citizens?? Deplorable.
I do not have all the answers, nor do I feel it is my job to have them. Guido is right, it IS a mess. Of course, Where is right, too! It does work for some of us and I am one of those So what have we got to lose? It is already fu$#@& up!! I HAVE health care and I can see a doctor ANYTIME. But it is not me that I worry about. I believe SOMETHNG needs to be done and it is up to the politicans to do it because NO ONE ELSE WILL! The Republicans (my party) want to fight it, the Democrats want to debate it, the insurance industry wants to kill it and the religious folks want to pray about it....I want to see action. If Obama has a plan and wants to try it, I say GO FOR IT. All I ask it that he DO something and stop yammering on and on about it while good, legitimate Americans get sicker and sicker.
[spapad] Sunday, September 13, 2009 4:01:42 PM
DF, Guids, looks like you summed up the quagmire pretty well. LOL
[Becks] Sunday, September 13, 2009 4:01:06 PM
I have read that in many places Freeze - Obama needs to get the balls to just do something about it. Thanks for your comments, that makes a lot of sense to me, and I agree, the fact that the US can spend shit loads invading countries etc, but it's own citizens don't get healthcare as a right, is absolutely ridiculous. I am also sorry to hear that the Princess isn't well and no one will help you guys out health care wise [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:06:50 AM)
Deep Freeze wrote:
Holy CRAP!!! Guido..? In the SOCIAL Thread?!??!?!?!?!? HA!!!!!!!!!!!! I have seen it all now! GREAT comments from all, I must say. Now for MINE!!!;
Most of you here know my situation and the series of events that led me to where I am today. The "system" is a nightmare for those that really need it...at least from my experience. Now then, I say this only because I went through a HORRIBLE experience, emerged on the other side and now have to watch as a loved one is beaten down. You see, I have reached the point where there is nothing more for me to worry about. But, the Princess is gravely ill and NO insurance company will take her. Not at ANY price. She requires monthy medications and phlebotomies once every three months or so and NO ONE will help us. No one.
We live in the greatest, richest most powerful country on earth and yet our citizens do not have health care as a RIGHT???? I find that deplorable. As far as paying for it, do any of you know the exact number of "pet" projects and "pork" that are funded every year?? And that is only the start. Waste in government is well documented. We can blow up other people very well and with great precision but we cannot care for our own citizens?? Deplorable.
I do not have all the answers, nor do I feel it is my job to have them. Guido is right, it IS a mess. Of course, Where is right, too! It does work for some of us and I am one of those So what have we got to lose? It is already fu$#@& up!! I HAVE health care and I can see a doctor ANYTIME. But it is not me that I worry about. I believe SOMETHNG needs to be done and it is up to the politicans to do it because NO ONE ELSE WILL! The Republicans (my party) want to fight it, the Democrats want to debate it, the insurance industry wants to kill it and the religious folks want to pray about it....I want to see action. If Obama has a plan and wants to try it, I say GO FOR IT. All I ask it that he DO something and stop yammering on and on about it while good, legitimate Americans get sicker and sicker.
[Deep Freeze] Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:54:15 AM
Thanks, Ron!! I liked it too....HAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by ron h from Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:39:37 AM)
ron h wrote:
Well said!!
Deep Freeze wrote:
Holy CRAP!!! Guido..? In the SOCIAL Thread?!??!?!?!?!? HA!!!!!!!!!!!! I have seen it all now! GREAT comments from all, I must say. Now for MINE!!!;
Most of you here know my situation and the series of events that led me to where I am today. The "system" is a nightmare for those that really need it...at least from my experience. Now then, I say this only because I went through a HORRIBLE experience, emerged on the other side and now have to watch as a loved one is beaten down. You see, I have reached the point where there is nothing more for me to worry about. But, the Princess is gravely ill and NO insurance company will take her. Not at ANY price. She requires monthy medications and phlebotomies once every three months or so and NO ONE will help us. No one.
We live in the greatest, richest most powerful country on earth and yet our citizens do not have health care as a RIGHT???? I find that deplorable. As far as paying for it, do any of you know the exact number of "pet" projects and "pork" that are funded every year?? And that is only the start. Waste in government is well documented. We can blow up other people very well and with great precision but we cannot care for our own citizens?? Deplorable.
I do not have all the answers, nor do I feel it is my job to have them. Guido is right, it IS a mess. Of course, Where is right, too! It does work for some of us and I am one of those So what have we got to lose? It is already fu$#@& up!! I HAVE health care and I can see a doctor ANYTIME. But it is not me that I worry about. I believe SOMETHNG needs to be done and it is up to the politicans to do it because NO ONE ELSE WILL! The Republicans (my party) want to fight it, the Democrats want to debate it, the insurance industry wants to kill it and the religious folks want to pray about it....I want to see action. If Obama has a plan and wants to try it, I say GO FOR IT. All I ask it that he DO something and stop yammering on and on about it while good, legitimate Americans get sicker and sicker.
Holy CRAP!!! Guido..? In the SOCIAL Thread?!??!?!?!?!? HA!!!!!!!!!!!! I have seen it all now! GREAT comments from all, I must say. Now for MINE!!!;
Most of you here know my situation and the series of events that led me to where I am today. The "system" is a nightmare for those that really need it...at least from my experience. Now then, I say this only because I went through a HORRIBLE experience, emerged on the other side and now have to watch as a loved one is beaten down. You see, I have reached the point where there is nothing more for me to worry about. But, the Princess is gravely ill and NO insurance company will take her. Not at ANY price. She requires monthy medications and phlebotomies once every three months or so and NO ONE will help us. No one.
We live in the greatest, richest most powerful country on earth and yet our citizens do not have health care as a RIGHT???? I find that deplorable. As far as paying for it, do any of you know the exact number of "pet" projects and "pork" that are funded every year?? And that is only the start. Waste in government is well documented. We can blow up other people very well and with great precision but we cannot care for our own citizens?? Deplorable.
I do not have all the answers, nor do I feel it is my job to have them. Guido is right, it IS a mess. Of course, Where is right, too! It does work for some of us and I am one of those So what have we got to lose? It is already fu$#@& up!! I HAVE health care and I can see a doctor ANYTIME. But it is not me that I worry about. I believe SOMETHNG needs to be done and it is up to the politicans to do it because NO ONE ELSE WILL! The Republicans (my party) want to fight it, the Democrats want to debate it, the insurance industry wants to kill it and the religious folks want to pray about it....I want to see action. If Obama has a plan and wants to try it, I say GO FOR IT. All I ask it that he DO something and stop yammering on and on about it while good, legitimate Americans get sicker and sicker.
[Deep Freeze] Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:06:50 AM
Holy CRAP!!! Guido..? In the SOCIAL Thread?!??!?!?!?!? HA!!!!!!!!!!!! I have seen it all now! GREAT comments from all, I must say. Now for MINE!!!;
Most of you here know my situation and the series of events that led me to where I am today. The "system" is a nightmare for those that really need it...at least from my experience. Now then, I say this only because I went through a HORRIBLE experience, emerged on the other side and now have to watch as a loved one is beaten down. You see, I have reached the point where there is nothing more for me to worry about. But, the Princess is gravely ill and NO insurance company will take her. Not at ANY price. She requires monthy medications and phlebotomies once every three months or so and NO ONE will help us. No one.
We live in the greatest, richest most powerful country on earth and yet our citizens do not have health care as a RIGHT???? I find that deplorable. As far as paying for it, do any of you know the exact number of "pet" projects and "pork" that are funded every year?? And that is only the start. Waste in government is well documented. We can blow up other people very well and with great precision but we cannot care for our own citizens?? Deplorable.
I do not have all the answers, nor do I feel it is my job to have them. Guido is right, it IS a mess. Of course, Where is right, too! It does work for some of us and I am one of those So what have we got to lose? It is already fu$#@& up!! I HAVE health care and I can see a doctor ANYTIME. But it is not me that I worry about. I believe SOMETHNG needs to be done and it is up to the politicans to do it because NO ONE ELSE WILL! The Republicans (my party) want to fight it, the Democrats want to debate it, the insurance industry wants to kill it and the religious folks want to pray about it....I want to see action. If Obama has a plan and wants to try it, I say GO FOR IT. All I ask it that he DO something and stop yammering on and on about it while good, legitimate Americans get sicker and sicker.
[.] Sunday, September 13, 2009 2:04:14 AM
Not at all, Guido. Why rip apart perfectly valid statements and concerns? [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Sunday, September 13, 2009 12:21:30 AM)
guidogodoy wrote:
No problem. Now I'll let the others rip these statements apart and go back to my happiness in the "Listening to now" thread, etc.!
Becks wrote:
Thanks for the input Guido, it's very interesting to read it's sad to hear about how few people can really afford what they need health care wise. Pharmaceutical company wise, the only advertisments we ever see are for Cialis or Viagra, and the occasional pain medication. It's very very rare to see any advertisements on the television or in magazines for medicines. It sounds like due to the large scale of advertising by the companies there, the taxes that should go towards better health care etc are going to these companies to flout their wares so to speak. That's sad. I know what you mean by top heavy goverment when it comes to healthcare - we have what are called District Health boards, and there is a ridiculous number of them for such a small country. They are too top heavy, too many people trying to run everything and things get stuffed up. Example, the childrens oncology department at Wellington Hospital (our capital city) has had to close (temporarily) due to their speicialists leaving as the DHB has no idea about retaining them or running the department (and other departments truth be told) - they are too concerned with their pay packets and other things that Joe Public really doesn't care about in the scheme of things. That's the worse case thing here at the moment.
Again, thanks for the input! Very interesting to read
guidogodoy wrote:
Well, I honestly don't think (nay, I KNOW) that the average American has no idea what TRUE communism actuactually means, I really think that it has very little to do with the argument. Those days are long past. More like what you said at the beginning. We pay a small fortune in taxes as it is with very little return. Can / should we learn from other countries? I have never met a person on the streets to say "no." They are more worried in that we can afford / take better care of our pets than we can ourselves. Get hurt? It usually turns out in a fight between you and your insurance company as to whether this or that procedure was actually needed. Malpractice lawsuits has a big role in this as does advertising for this and that drug. After all, the pharmaceutical corporations have HUGE political power here in the States. Don't know about there but here there are certain times of the day when every other commercial on TV is from another drug company. THAT is sad and only adds to the cost. Even sadder is that most go with generic equivalents anyway as they are cheaper for those WITH insurance. Co-pay is less. See a Dr. here and you best know what you have before you walk into their office as they will only spend about five minutes with you. Many states are suffering a major Dr. shortage as they are not protected from lawsuits. Now imagine yourself a Dr. and have to get paid from the government once you complete a service. Again, everything done by the government pretty much ends up as a complete mess as we are too top-heavy.
So, no, Not fear of communism. More the fear of ever-rising taxes, healthcare costs and co-pays. If you notice, my comments don't even breach the "system" trying to cover the countless illegals living here tax free. Hey, my little brother is living in Canada "under the radar" to avoid many of these problems.
[.] Sunday, September 13, 2009 2:01:38 AM
I agree with what you say except that last part where you said about the government botching the system. Having been born and raised in a public health care system, and having experienced more than one country's public healthcare system, I have to say I disagree, since I was taken care of just fine and having contributed to both didn't break my piggybank. This current system here in the US kills any chance at people saving some money and having equal treatment at point-of-care. If you make no money, you can use Medicaid and Medicare. If you are wealthy enough to be able to pay $1000 each month, plus any extras, then it's ok. Those in between are bummed because they make too much to qualify for assistance but too little to afford the private.
It leaves the majority of the country's population - the one that is a contributor in taxes and the true generator of wealth, very unprotected. To depend on charity is like depending on winning at the blackjack table every day for your income.
Medicare, Medicaid and Veteran and Military Health Care are government-run systems and they work fine. The issue of funding has more to do with politicking than with the costs associated with the system itself. A government is always in a better position to negotiate lower rates of care and lower medication prices than a small or a mid-size company. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:36:54 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Well, I honestly don't think (nay, I KNOW) that the average American has no idea what TRUE communism actuactually means, I really think that it has very little to do with the argument. Those days are long past. More like what you said at the beginning. We pay a small fortune in taxes as it is with very little return. Can / should we learn from other countries? I have never met a person on the streets to say "no." They are more worried in that we can afford / take better care of our pets than we can ourselves. Get hurt? It usually turns out in a fight between you and your insurance company as to whether this or that procedure was actually needed. Malpractice lawsuits has a big role in this as does advertising for this and that drug. After all, the pharmaceutical corporations have HUGE political power here in the States. Don't know about there but here there are certain times of the day when every other commercial on TV is from another drug company. THAT is sad and only adds to the cost. Even sadder is that most go with generic equivalents anyway as they are cheaper for those WITH insurance. Co-pay is less. See a Dr. here and you best know what you have before you walk into their office as they will only spend about five minutes with you. Many states are suffering a major Dr. shortage as they are not protected from lawsuits. Now imagine yourself a Dr. and have to get paid from the government once you complete a service. Again, everything done by the government pretty much ends up as a complete mess as we are too top-heavy.
So, no, Not fear of communism. More the fear of ever-rising taxes, healthcare costs and co-pays. If you notice, my comments don't even breach the "system" trying to cover the countless illegals living here tax free. Hey, my little brother is living in Canada "under the radar" to avoid many of these problems.
[guidogodoy] Sunday, September 13, 2009 12:21:30 AM
No problem. Now I'll let the others rip these statements apart and go back to my happiness in the "Listening to now" thread, etc.!
Thanks for the input Guido, it's very interesting to read it's sad to hear about how few people can really afford what they need health care wise. Pharmaceutical company wise, the only advertisments we ever see are for Cialis or Viagra, and the occasional pain medication. It's very very rare to see any advertisements on the television or in magazines for medicines. It sounds like due to the large scale of advertising by the companies there, the taxes that should go towards better health care etc are going to these companies to flout their wares so to speak. That's sad. I know what you mean by top heavy goverment when it comes to healthcare - we have what are called District Health boards, and there is a ridiculous number of them for such a small country. They are too top heavy, too many people trying to run everything and things get stuffed up. Example, the childrens oncology department at Wellington Hospital (our capital city) has had to close (temporarily) due to their speicialists leaving as the DHB has no idea about retaining them or running the department (and other departments truth be told) - they are too concerned with their pay packets and other things that Joe Public really doesn't care about in the scheme of things. That's the worse case thing here at the moment.
Again, thanks for the input! Very interesting to read
guidogodoy wrote:
Well, I honestly don't think (nay, I KNOW) that the average American has no idea what TRUE communism actuactually means, I really think that it has very little to do with the argument. Those days are long past. More like what you said at the beginning. We pay a small fortune in taxes as it is with very little return. Can / should we learn from other countries? I have never met a person on the streets to say "no." They are more worried in that we can afford / take better care of our pets than we can ourselves. Get hurt? It usually turns out in a fight between you and your insurance company as to whether this or that procedure was actually needed. Malpractice lawsuits has a big role in this as does advertising for this and that drug. After all, the pharmaceutical corporations have HUGE political power here in the States. Don't know about there but here there are certain times of the day when every other commercial on TV is from another drug company. THAT is sad and only adds to the cost. Even sadder is that most go with generic equivalents anyway as they are cheaper for those WITH insurance. Co-pay is less. See a Dr. here and you best know what you have before you walk into their office as they will only spend about five minutes with you. Many states are suffering a major Dr. shortage as they are not protected from lawsuits. Now imagine yourself a Dr. and have to get paid from the government once you complete a service. Again, everything done by the government pretty much ends up as a complete mess as we are too top-heavy.
So, no, Not fear of communism. More the fear of ever-rising taxes, healthcare costs and co-pays. If you notice, my comments don't even breach the "system" trying to cover the countless illegals living here tax free. Hey, my little brother is living in Canada "under the radar" to avoid many of these problems.
[Becks] Sunday, September 13, 2009 12:06:59 AM
Thanks for the input Guido, it's very interesting to read it's sad to hear about how few people can really afford what they need health care wise. Pharmaceutical company wise, the only advertisments we ever see are for Cialis or Viagra, and the occasional pain medication. It's very very rare to see any advertisements on the television or in magazines for medicines. It sounds like due to the large scale of advertising by the companies there, the taxes that should go towards better health care etc are going to these companies to flout their wares so to speak. That's sad. I know what you mean by top heavy goverment when it comes to healthcare - we have what are called District Health boards, and there is a ridiculous number of them for such a small country. They are too top heavy, too many people trying to run everything and things get stuffed up. Example, the childrens oncology department at Wellington Hospital (our capital city) has had to close (temporarily) due to their speicialists leaving as the DHB has no idea about retaining them or running the department (and other departments truth be told) - they are too concerned with their pay packets and other things that Joe Public really doesn't care about in the scheme of things. That's the worse case thing here at the moment.
Again, thanks for the input! Very interesting to read [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:36:54 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Well, I honestly don't think (nay, I KNOW) that the average American has no idea what TRUE communism actuactually means, I really think that it has very little to do with the argument. Those days are long past. More like what you said at the beginning. We pay a small fortune in taxes as it is with very little return. Can / should we learn from other countries? I have never met a person on the streets to say "no." They are more worried in that we can afford / take better care of our pets than we can ourselves. Get hurt? It usually turns out in a fight between you and your insurance company as to whether this or that procedure was actually needed. Malpractice lawsuits has a big role in this as does advertising for this and that drug. After all, the pharmaceutical corporations have HUGE political power here in the States. Don't know about there but here there are certain times of the day when every other commercial on TV is from another drug company. THAT is sad and only adds to the cost. Even sadder is that most go with generic equivalents anyway as they are cheaper for those WITH insurance. Co-pay is less. See a Dr. here and you best know what you have before you walk into their office as they will only spend about five minutes with you. Many states are suffering a major Dr. shortage as they are not protected from lawsuits. Now imagine yourself a Dr. and have to get paid from the government once you complete a service. Again, everything done by the government pretty much ends up as a complete mess as we are too top-heavy.
So, no, Not fear of communism. More the fear of ever-rising taxes, healthcare costs and co-pays. If you notice, my comments don't even breach the "system" trying to cover the countless illegals living here tax free. Hey, my little brother is living in Canada "under the radar" to avoid many of these problems.
[guidogodoy] Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:36:54 PM
Well, I honestly don't think (nay, I KNOW) that the average American has no idea what TRUE communism actuactually means, I really think that it has very little to do with the argument. Those days are long past. More like what you said at the beginning. We pay a small fortune in taxes as it is with very little return. Can / should we learn from other countries? I have never met a person on the streets to say "no." They are more worried in that we can afford / take better care of our pets than we can ourselves. Get hurt? It usually turns out in a fight between you and your insurance company as to whether this or that procedure was actually needed. Malpractice lawsuits has a big role in this as does advertising for this and that drug. After all, the pharmaceutical corporations have HUGE political power here in the States. Don't know about there but here there are certain times of the day when every other commercial on TV is from another drug company. THAT is sad and only adds to the cost. Even sadder is that most go with generic equivalents anyway as they are cheaper for those WITH insurance. Co-pay is less. See a Dr. here and you best know what you have before you walk into their office as they will only spend about five minutes with you. Many states are suffering a major Dr. shortage as they are not protected from lawsuits. Now imagine yourself a Dr. and have to get paid from the government once you complete a service. Again, everything done by the government pretty much ends up as a complete mess as we are too top-heavy.
So, no, Not fear of communism. More the fear of ever-rising taxes, healthcare costs and co-pays. If you notice, my comments don't even breach the "system" trying to cover the countless illegals living here tax free. Hey, my little brother is living in Canada "under the radar" to avoid many of these problems.
[Becks] Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:08:50 PM
Ahhh thanks for that Guid. So the people are worried that changes made by the government will inflate prices of insurance etc? You pay a lot of tax, and don't see any return. That's sad really. It's also sad how much health insurance costs there too, I've heard some staggering numbers! I pay $32 a month for almost full healthcare coverage - I'm actually looking at changing insurance companies to a company who will charge me about the same every month, but I will be covered entirely i.e. if I needed major heart surgery, amounting to like $50k or even more, it would be covered; non goverment subsidised medications are covered too. I don't understand how other countries can sort out their health care stuff so easily compared to the States. What I am taking from what you've said is, people are scared that if the state takes over running of healthcare, its a step toward communism?? It's all very confusing for me LOL and like I said, I just don't understand how many other countries can have it all worked out, but America can't. Granted, different strokes for different folks, but why not look at places where it works and taking a small leaf out of their books? Although if the US government can't pay for it, as you say, that makes things very difficult.
That was a bit waffly sorry LOL, like I said, it's confusing for me, but you did clear it up a bit! [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:52:54 PM)
guidogodoy wrote:
Hiya Becks,
While not a regular to this particular thread (actually, I avoid it like the plague), I can shed a bit of light on the subject as I do follow both sides. While it certainly depends upon the person you trust when getting your "news," the biggest protest is a state run anything. Most have turned out to be classic failures in this country. We no longer own our country, unemployment is sky-high, and every other house around here seems to be for sale and / or being lost due to foreclosure. Social security was a bad idea and is in due to run out in my lifetime and our social services are taxed to the limit. Catch a cold? Just TRY to see a doctor around here. It is to the emergency room for those with insurance, that is. Quite sad, really.
Obama isn't the first to try healthcare reform. Like Social Security, all know the system is broken but no one can really fix it. To me, Obama simply can't pay for it. His plan would come up with a state-run system that has major faults. It would be a cheaper alternative to those of us with insurance paid by our employers and would, eventually, bring further debt and make one have to fight for basic care. The fact that not a single Senator would apparently sign up for this option his/her self is telling. THAT is where people calling "communism" comes into play. If you do well, economically, why would you be forced to give up even more of your pay to pay for a state run healthcare system? My family is in the medical field and most don't like it. They complain that the already skyrocketing price of healthcare in this country would get worse as prices would suffer artificial inflation when the private insurance firms are effectively pushed out by the government.
So...can't pay for it would be my general answer. We are already taxed like crazy. Healthcare costs are artificially high as it is and Obama is really flopping about what HIS ideas are and how he can pay for them.
Just my 2cents and anyone who really knows me knows that I am NOT an Obama hater. Not just Americans exercising "free speech" nor organizations moving their followers to disrupt these "town hall meetings," IMO. Just an awful lot of us who pay a literal ton in taxes with very little payback as it is just asking some quite valid questions about this new plan.
Like the Ford buyout, we weren't asked and the government just stepped in without asking if We the People wanted to buy Ford. Hasn't really helped yet.
Becks wrote:
Ok maybe some of my American friends on here can help me out with this, cos something that's going on over there at the moment is really puzzling.
I've just seen on the news hoardes of Americans protesting against President Obamas healthcare plan. What is wrong with this plan that people feel the need to protest about it? Are some people listening to the likes of Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity a bit too much? I see Obama getting called a socialist, marxist, communist - whether or not the people saying these things have any idea what they mean, I don't know, some of them spout those things of in one breath seemingly unaware that they are all different things. Is it scaremongering from President Obamas opponents, trying to make people believe the new healthcare plan will cover illegal immigrants, that his policies are socialist etc? Can anyone shed any light on this for me - cos at the moment a lot of the people I see complaining actually look pretty stupid cos it doesn't seem any of them really know why they are protesting and what about exactly. Or are just protesting because they can LOL!
Edited at: Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:10:23 PM
[guidogodoy] Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:52:54 PM
Hiya Becks,
While not a regular to this particular thread (actually, I avoid it like the plague), I can shed a bit of light on the subject as I do follow both sides. While it certainly depends upon the person you trust when getting your "news," the biggest protest is a state run anything. Most have turned out to be classic failures in this country. We no longer own our country, unemployment is sky-high, and every other house around here seems to be for sale and / or being lost due to foreclosure. Social security was a bad idea and is in due to run out in my lifetime and our social services are taxed to the limit. Catch a cold? Just TRY to see a doctor around here. It is to the emergency room for those with insurance, that is. Quite sad, really.
Obama isn't the first to try healthcare reform. Like Social Security, all know the system is broken but no one can really fix it. To me, Obama simply can't pay for it. His plan would come up with a state-run system that has major faults. It would be a cheaper alternative to those of us with insurance paid by our employers and would, eventually, bring further debt and make one have to fight for basic care. The fact that not a single Senator would apparently sign up for this option his/her self is telling. THAT is where people calling "communism" comes into play. If you do well, economically, why would you be forced to give up even more of your pay to pay for a state run healthcare system? My family is in the medical field and most don't like it. They complain that the already skyrocketing price of healthcare in this country would get worse as prices would suffer artificial inflation when the private insurance firms are effectively pushed out by the government.
So...can't pay for it would be my general answer. We are already taxed like crazy. Healthcare costs are artificially high as it is and Obama is really flopping about what HIS ideas are and how he can pay for them.
Just my 2cents and anyone who really knows me knows that I am NOT an Obama hater. Not just Americans exercising "free speech" nor organizations moving their followers to disrupt these "town hall meetings," IMO. Just an awful lot of us who pay a literal ton in taxes with very little payback as it is just asking some quite valid questions about this new plan.
Like the Ford buyout, we weren't asked and the government just stepped in without asking if We the People wanted to buy Ford. Hasn't really helped yet. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Becks from Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:16:10 PM)
Becks wrote:
Ok maybe some of my American friends on here can help me out with this, cos something that's going on over there at the moment is really puzzling.
I've just seen on the news hoardes of Americans protesting against President Obamas healthcare plan. What is wrong with this plan that people feel the need to protest about it? Are some people listening to the likes of Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity a bit too much? I see Obama getting called a socialist, marxist, communist - whether or not the people saying these things have any idea what they mean, I don't know, some of them spout those things of in one breath seemingly unaware that they are all different things. Is it scaremongering from President Obamas opponents, trying to make people believe the new healthcare plan will cover illegal immigrants, that his policies are socialist etc? Can anyone shed any light on this for me - cos at the moment a lot of the people I see complaining actually look pretty stupid cos it doesn't seem any of them really know why they are protesting and what about exactly. Or are just protesting because they can LOL!
[Becks] Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:16:10 PM
Ok maybe some of my American friends on here can help me out with this, cos something that's going on over there at the moment is really puzzling.
I've just seen on the news hoardes of Americans protesting against President Obamas healthcare plan. What is wrong with this plan that people feel the need to protest about it? Are some people listening to the likes of Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity a bit too much? I see Obama getting called a socialist, marxist, communist - whether or not the people saying these things have any idea what they mean, I don't know, some of them spout those things of in one breath seemingly unaware that they are all different things. Is it scaremongering from President Obamas opponents, trying to make people believe the new healthcare plan will cover illegal immigrants, that his policies are socialist etc? Can anyone shed any light on this for me - cos at the moment a lot of the people I see complaining actually look pretty stupid cos it doesn't seem any of them really know why they are protesting and what about exactly. Or are just protesting because they can LOL!
[Bev] Wednesday, September 02, 2009 3:08:36 PM
Finally! Weren't we having this discussion about a year or so ago? Good to see someone got some sense and has found a way to use current technology
IMO - if Florida would release some (not all) of their off shore rights we'd be in even better shape.
[J.D. DIAMOND] Thursday, August 27, 2009 2:41:44 PM
HA! You can start with member "Where AmI"...he apparently attacks members in here for NO reason whatsover. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, August 27, 2009 7:45:59 AM)
Head banger wrote:
so, do we want a slower or quicker death for scumbags. I vote for speed. sure making them suffer would be nice, but there are so many.... would get very tirring.
J.D. DIAMOND wrote:
lol! Actually spapad...either would be painful but shot peening would do far more damage at least quicker..how about that! lol! Sand blast would be painfull but a slower death...
as shot peening is metallic cast steel shot...basically being peened by small steel "b.b.s"...as in a b.b. gun....lol!!
(Quoting Message by spapad from Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:37:45 PM)
spapad wrote:
Which brings us back to Shot Peening vs. Sandblasting. I'm leaning more toward the sandblasting now as I believe it would be more painful! HA!! I wish I could sand blast all illegal oders to our facility too, and then give them back to the UPS man. As for all the calls, why doesn't office etiquett dictate it is OK to blast a Fog horn in to the phone, so the Paper pirate callers will get the message? Seems perfectly acceptable if shut the office door and then tell them kindly "I'll transfer you to Mr. Horn, please hold", then BLAST away!
Head banger wrote:
I had a used car dealer call me up for payment for the 28 used fords he was delivering. gave me the name of the director of fleet. so I pointed out that they do all payments via wire transfer, and he would have an agreement for the payment, and a address to submit document to, not to mention I would have coppies of the PO and we didnt buy any used cars in the past 20 years here. sigh, it takes all kinds I supose. some of the kinds though it would be nice to eliminate.
spapad wrote:
We have gotten some seriously messed up stuff! I reject it when it comes in, but some of the Authorization has been from talking to voice mail! WTF!!! Anymore, I don't let any calls into the building unless I ask the person WHO is calling and WHAT company they represent and what they want. Then I either hang up on them or send them to "General mail" which I control. I know the names of our legitimate vendors and I don't let these fools pass.
Head banger wrote:
Fraud of all types is up significantly in the last few years, and I believe thats normal in a recession. fucking dirtbags need to go straight to hell.
spapad wrote:
Ok, you know I'm not very polically minded or not good at it, but I have noticed a huge increase in what we like to call "Paper pirates" They try to call your facility and act like they are someone else and then send you something weather or not you actually agreed to have it sent at a mark up of 300% Reallly! Who asks you to pay 800.00 for a bulk of floresent lights!? I have learned to sort these people out before they come in contact with the orderers now. Anyone calling about our Copiers the magic words are " Are you with ROPHO Sales? (Which they would never contact us) and the caller hangs up straight away. Those shippers are nasty, and it takes vigillance to make sure their shipment does not stay in your facility.
Like I said maybe not political, but def a way people try to rip off large facilities.
Edited at: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:34:18 AM
[Head banger] Thursday, August 27, 2009 7:45:59 AM
so, do we want a slower or quicker death for scumbags. I vote for speed. sure making them suffer would be nice, but there are so many.... would get very tirring. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by J.D. DIAMOND from Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:33:34 AM)
J.D. DIAMOND wrote:
lol! Actually spapad...either would be painful but shot peening would do far more damage at least quicker..how about that! lol! Sand blast would be painfull but a slower death...
as shot peening is metallic cast steel shot...basically being peened by small steel "b.b.s"...as in a b.b. gun....lol!!
(Quoting Message by spapad from Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:37:45 PM)
spapad wrote:
Which brings us back to Shot Peening vs. Sandblasting. I'm leaning more toward the sandblasting now as I believe it would be more painful! HA!! I wish I could sand blast all illegal oders to our facility too, and then give them back to the UPS man. As for all the calls, why doesn't office etiquett dictate it is OK to blast a Fog horn in to the phone, so the Paper pirate callers will get the message? Seems perfectly acceptable if shut the office door and then tell them kindly "I'll transfer you to Mr. Horn, please hold", then BLAST away!
Head banger wrote:
I had a used car dealer call me up for payment for the 28 used fords he was delivering. gave me the name of the director of fleet. so I pointed out that they do all payments via wire transfer, and he would have an agreement for the payment, and a address to submit document to, not to mention I would have coppies of the PO and we didnt buy any used cars in the past 20 years here. sigh, it takes all kinds I supose. some of the kinds though it would be nice to eliminate.
spapad wrote:
We have gotten some seriously messed up stuff! I reject it when it comes in, but some of the Authorization has been from talking to voice mail! WTF!!! Anymore, I don't let any calls into the building unless I ask the person WHO is calling and WHAT company they represent and what they want. Then I either hang up on them or send them to "General mail" which I control. I know the names of our legitimate vendors and I don't let these fools pass.
Head banger wrote:
Fraud of all types is up significantly in the last few years, and I believe thats normal in a recession. fucking dirtbags need to go straight to hell.
spapad wrote:
Ok, you know I'm not very polically minded or not good at it, but I have noticed a huge increase in what we like to call "Paper pirates" They try to call your facility and act like they are someone else and then send you something weather or not you actually agreed to have it sent at a mark up of 300% Reallly! Who asks you to pay 800.00 for a bulk of floresent lights!? I have learned to sort these people out before they come in contact with the orderers now. Anyone calling about our Copiers the magic words are " Are you with ROPHO Sales? (Which they would never contact us) and the caller hangs up straight away. Those shippers are nasty, and it takes vigillance to make sure their shipment does not stay in your facility.
Like I said maybe not political, but def a way people try to rip off large facilities.
Edited at: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:34:18 AM
[J.D. DIAMOND] Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:33:34 AM
lol! Actually spapad...either would be painful but shot peening would do far more damage at least quicker..how about that! lol! Sand blast would be painfull but a slower death...
as shot peening is metallic cast steel shot...basically being peened by small steel "b.b.s"...as in a b.b. gun....lol!!
Which brings us back to Shot Peening vs. Sandblasting. I'm leaning more toward the sandblasting now as I believe it would be more painful! HA!! I wish I could sand blast all illegal oders to our facility too, and then give them back to the UPS man. As for all the calls, why doesn't office etiquett dictate it is OK to blast a Fog horn in to the phone, so the Paper pirate callers will get the message? Seems perfectly acceptable if shut the office door and then tell them kindly "I'll transfer you to Mr. Horn, please hold", then BLAST away!
Head banger wrote:
I had a used car dealer call me up for payment for the 28 used fords he was delivering. gave me the name of the director of fleet. so I pointed out that they do all payments via wire transfer, and he would have an agreement for the payment, and a address to submit document to, not to mention I would have coppies of the PO and we didnt buy any used cars in the past 20 years here. sigh, it takes all kinds I supose. some of the kinds though it would be nice to eliminate.
spapad wrote:
We have gotten some seriously messed up stuff! I reject it when it comes in, but some of the Authorization has been from talking to voice mail! WTF!!! Anymore, I don't let any calls into the building unless I ask the person WHO is calling and WHAT company they represent and what they want. Then I either hang up on them or send them to "General mail" which I control. I know the names of our legitimate vendors and I don't let these fools pass.
Head banger wrote:
Fraud of all types is up significantly in the last few years, and I believe thats normal in a recession. fucking dirtbags need to go straight to hell.
spapad wrote:
Ok, you know I'm not very polically minded or not good at it, but I have noticed a huge increase in what we like to call "Paper pirates" They try to call your facility and act like they are someone else and then send you something weather or not you actually agreed to have it sent at a mark up of 300% Reallly! Who asks you to pay 800.00 for a bulk of floresent lights!? I have learned to sort these people out before they come in contact with the orderers now. Anyone calling about our Copiers the magic words are " Are you with ROPHO Sales? (Which they would never contact us) and the caller hangs up straight away. Those shippers are nasty, and it takes vigillance to make sure their shipment does not stay in your facility.
Like I said maybe not political, but def a way people try to rip off large facilities.
Edited at: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:34:18 AM
[Head banger] Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:07:38 PM
yeah, apparently they frown no screaming "FUCK OFF AND DIE ASSHOLE" into the phone at work. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by spapad from Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:37:45 PM)
spapad wrote:
Which brings us back to Shot Peening vs. Sandblasting. I'm leaning more toward the sandblasting now as I believe it would be more painful! HA!! I wish I could sand blast all illegal oders to our facility too, and then give them back to the UPS man. As for all the calls, why doesn't office etiquett dictate it is OK to blast a Fog horn in to the phone, so the Paper pirate callers will get the message? Seems perfectly acceptable if shut the office door and then tell them kindly "I'll transfer you to Mr. Horn, please hold", then BLAST away!
Head banger wrote:
I had a used car dealer call me up for payment for the 28 used fords he was delivering. gave me the name of the director of fleet. so I pointed out that they do all payments via wire transfer, and he would have an agreement for the payment, and a address to submit document to, not to mention I would have coppies of the PO and we didnt buy any used cars in the past 20 years here. sigh, it takes all kinds I supose. some of the kinds though it would be nice to eliminate.
spapad wrote:
We have gotten some seriously messed up stuff! I reject it when it comes in, but some of the Authorization has been from talking to voice mail! WTF!!! Anymore, I don't let any calls into the building unless I ask the person WHO is calling and WHAT company they represent and what they want. Then I either hang up on them or send them to "General mail" which I control. I know the names of our legitimate vendors and I don't let these fools pass.
Head banger wrote:
Fraud of all types is up significantly in the last few years, and I believe thats normal in a recession. fucking dirtbags need to go straight to hell.
spapad wrote:
Ok, you know I'm not very polically minded or not good at it, but I have noticed a huge increase in what we like to call "Paper pirates" They try to call your facility and act like they are someone else and then send you something weather or not you actually agreed to have it sent at a mark up of 300% Reallly! Who asks you to pay 800.00 for a bulk of floresent lights!? I have learned to sort these people out before they come in contact with the orderers now. Anyone calling about our Copiers the magic words are " Are you with ROPHO Sales? (Which they would never contact us) and the caller hangs up straight away. Those shippers are nasty, and it takes vigillance to make sure their shipment does not stay in your facility.
Like I said maybe not political, but def a way people try to rip off large facilities.
[spapad] Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:37:45 PM
Which brings us back to Shot Peening vs. Sandblasting. I'm leaning more toward the sandblasting now as I believe it would be more painful! HA!! I wish I could sand blast all illegal oders to our facility too, and then give them back to the UPS man. As for all the calls, why doesn't office etiquett dictate it is OK to blast a Fog horn in to the phone, so the Paper pirate callers will get the message? Seems perfectly acceptable if shut the office door and then tell them kindly "I'll transfer you to Mr. Horn, please hold", then BLAST away! [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Head banger from Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:39:32 AM)
Head banger wrote:
I had a used car dealer call me up for payment for the 28 used fords he was delivering. gave me the name of the director of fleet. so I pointed out that they do all payments via wire transfer, and he would have an agreement for the payment, and a address to submit document to, not to mention I would have coppies of the PO and we didnt buy any used cars in the past 20 years here. sigh, it takes all kinds I supose. some of the kinds though it would be nice to eliminate.
spapad wrote:
We have gotten some seriously messed up stuff! I reject it when it comes in, but some of the Authorization has been from talking to voice mail! WTF!!! Anymore, I don't let any calls into the building unless I ask the person WHO is calling and WHAT company they represent and what they want. Then I either hang up on them or send them to "General mail" which I control. I know the names of our legitimate vendors and I don't let these fools pass.
Head banger wrote:
Fraud of all types is up significantly in the last few years, and I believe thats normal in a recession. fucking dirtbags need to go straight to hell.
spapad wrote:
Ok, you know I'm not very polically minded or not good at it, but I have noticed a huge increase in what we like to call "Paper pirates" They try to call your facility and act like they are someone else and then send you something weather or not you actually agreed to have it sent at a mark up of 300% Reallly! Who asks you to pay 800.00 for a bulk of floresent lights!? I have learned to sort these people out before they come in contact with the orderers now. Anyone calling about our Copiers the magic words are " Are you with ROPHO Sales? (Which they would never contact us) and the caller hangs up straight away. Those shippers are nasty, and it takes vigillance to make sure their shipment does not stay in your facility.
Like I said maybe not political, but def a way people try to rip off large facilities.
[Head banger] Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:39:32 AM
I had a used car dealer call me up for payment for the 28 used fords he was delivering. gave me the name of the director of fleet. so I pointed out that they do all payments via wire transfer, and he would have an agreement for the payment, and a address to submit document to, not to mention I would have coppies of the PO and we didnt buy any used cars in the past 20 years here. sigh, it takes all kinds I supose. some of the kinds though it would be nice to eliminate. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by spapad from Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:06:00 PM)
spapad wrote:
We have gotten some seriously messed up stuff! I reject it when it comes in, but some of the Authorization has been from talking to voice mail! WTF!!! Anymore, I don't let any calls into the building unless I ask the person WHO is calling and WHAT company they represent and what they want. Then I either hang up on them or send them to "General mail" which I control. I know the names of our legitimate vendors and I don't let these fools pass.
Head banger wrote:
Fraud of all types is up significantly in the last few years, and I believe thats normal in a recession. fucking dirtbags need to go straight to hell.
spapad wrote:
Ok, you know I'm not very polically minded or not good at it, but I have noticed a huge increase in what we like to call "Paper pirates" They try to call your facility and act like they are someone else and then send you something weather or not you actually agreed to have it sent at a mark up of 300% Reallly! Who asks you to pay 800.00 for a bulk of floresent lights!? I have learned to sort these people out before they come in contact with the orderers now. Anyone calling about our Copiers the magic words are " Are you with ROPHO Sales? (Which they would never contact us) and the caller hangs up straight away. Those shippers are nasty, and it takes vigillance to make sure their shipment does not stay in your facility.
Like I said maybe not political, but def a way people try to rip off large facilities.
[I.M.P.] Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:19:45 PM
Jeez, now that is some ugly stuff, the fraud...
[spapad] Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:06:00 PM
We have gotten some seriously messed up stuff! I reject it when it comes in, but some of the Authorization has been from talking to voice mail! WTF!!! Anymore, I don't let any calls into the building unless I ask the person WHO is calling and WHAT company they represent and what they want. Then I either hang up on them or send them to "General mail" which I control. I know the names of our legitimate vendors and I don't let these fools pass. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Head banger from Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:57:40 PM)
Head banger wrote:
Fraud of all types is up significantly in the last few years, and I believe thats normal in a recession. fucking dirtbags need to go straight to hell.
spapad wrote:
Ok, you know I'm not very polically minded or not good at it, but I have noticed a huge increase in what we like to call "Paper pirates" They try to call your facility and act like they are someone else and then send you something weather or not you actually agreed to have it sent at a mark up of 300% Reallly! Who asks you to pay 800.00 for a bulk of floresent lights!? I have learned to sort these people out before they come in contact with the orderers now. Anyone calling about our Copiers the magic words are " Are you with ROPHO Sales? (Which they would never contact us) and the caller hangs up straight away. Those shippers are nasty, and it takes vigillance to make sure their shipment does not stay in your facility.
Like I said maybe not political, but def a way people try to rip off large facilities.
[Head banger] Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:57:40 PM
Fraud of all types is up significantly in the last few years, and I believe thats normal in a recession. fucking dirtbags need to go straight to hell. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by spapad from Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:55:24 PM)
spapad wrote:
Ok, you know I'm not very polically minded or not good at it, but I have noticed a huge increase in what we like to call "Paper pirates" They try to call your facility and act like they are someone else and then send you something weather or not you actually agreed to have it sent at a mark up of 300% Reallly! Who asks you to pay 800.00 for a bulk of floresent lights!? I have learned to sort these people out before they come in contact with the orderers now. Anyone calling about our Copiers the magic words are " Are you with ROPHO Sales? (Which they would never contact us) and the caller hangs up straight away. Those shippers are nasty, and it takes vigillance to make sure their shipment does not stay in your facility.
Like I said maybe not political, but def a way people try to rip off large facilities.
[spapad] Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:55:24 PM
Ok, you know I'm not very polically minded or not good at it, but I have noticed a huge increase in what we like to call "Paper pirates" They try to call your facility and act like they are someone else and then send you something weather or not you actually agreed to have it sent at a mark up of 300% Reallly! Who asks you to pay 800.00 for a bulk of floresent lights!? I have learned to sort these people out before they come in contact with the orderers now. Anyone calling about our Copiers the magic words are " Are you with ROPHO Sales? (Which they would never contact us) and the caller hangs up straight away. Those shippers are nasty, and it takes vigillance to make sure their shipment does not stay in your facility.
Like I said maybe not political, but def a way people try to rip off large facilities.
[Head banger] Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:51:50 PM
the problem is the we is hard to define. if lots of people do well, and a few starve, the we is good.
your right in that this sort of thing spurs creative thinking. if too many lose though, it starts a downward spiral that is very hard to recover from. the recession in the 30's would have gone on a lot longer without WWII. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by I.M.P. from Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:47:12 PM)
I.M.P. wrote:
"Us" or "we" being the ones affected by this recession.
New industry ideas is where the most benefit lies as far as I'm concerned. To make anything faster, cheaper, better, or more efficient requires a "need," the finger that does the prodding. Nobody innovates without a motivation. These kind of times spur some creative thinking, that's for sure. This is where the recession "helps" business and consumers in the long run.
That which doesn't kill you may become a festering infection. Stealing away needed energy.... If too many are forced to cut to the bone, and market conditions do not improve, what next..?
(Quoting Message by Head banger from Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:32:31 PM)
Head banger wrote:
that which doesnt kill you makes you stronger???
define we.
some get more, some get less. hopefully new directions emerge, new industry and ideas, and more people end up in a stronger position.
I.M.P. wrote:
New topic: The Recession.
Just a short bit here. What's going to kill the recession? I'm wondering if anybody who's in manufacturing or retail has been experiencing what we have recently. Hungry vendors and salesmen. It's like a tank full of piranhas-they're all out there for that fish. The cost of much stock product is going down for us here-I'm wondering how widespread this is. Is this happening in a good way? I think so. The fatty companies that can't handle price wars are driven out being replaced by the lean and mean ones that've figured out how to make a buck without waste. The only thing is, I don't know what's going on with raw materials. I don't know if companies are killing themselves to make a buck with raw materials cost rising or staying static...
This is the way of the free market. Self correcting and efficient. What's it mean for "us," good, bad, ugly....?
Edited at: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:48:04 PM
[I.M.P.] Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:47:12 PM
"Us" or "we" being the ones affected by this recession.
New industry ideas is where the most benefit lies as far as I'm concerned. To make anything faster, cheaper, better, or more efficient requires a "need," the finger that does the prodding. Nobody innovates without a motivation. These kind of times spur some creative thinking, that's for sure. This is where the recession "helps" business and consumers in the long run.
That which doesn't kill you may become a festering infection. Stealing away needed energy.... If too many are forced to cut to the bone, and market conditions do not improve, what next..?
some get more, some get less. hopefully new directions emerge, new industry and ideas, and more people end up in a stronger position.
I.M.P. wrote:
New topic: The Recession.
Just a short bit here. What's going to kill the recession? I'm wondering if anybody who's in manufacturing or retail has been experiencing what we have recently. Hungry vendors and salesmen. It's like a tank full of piranhas-they're all out there for that fish. The cost of much stock product is going down for us here-I'm wondering how widespread this is. Is this happening in a good way? I think so. The fatty companies that can't handle price wars are driven out being replaced by the lean and mean ones that've figured out how to make a buck without waste. The only thing is, I don't know what's going on with raw materials. I don't know if companies are killing themselves to make a buck with raw materials cost rising or staying static...
This is the way of the free market. Self correcting and efficient. What's it mean for "us," good, bad, ugly....?
Edited at: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:48:04 PM
[Head banger] Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:32:31 PM
that which doesnt kill you makes you stronger???
define we.
some get more, some get less. hopefully new directions emerge, new industry and ideas, and more people end up in a stronger position. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by I.M.P. from Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:31:35 PM)
I.M.P. wrote:
New topic: The Recession.
Just a short bit here. What's going to kill the recession? I'm wondering if anybody who's in manufacturing or retail has been experiencing what we have recently. Hungry vendors and salesmen. It's like a tank full of piranhas-they're all out there for that fish. The cost of much stock product is going down for us here-I'm wondering how widespread this is. Is this happening in a good way? I think so. The fatty companies that can't handle price wars are driven out being replaced by the lean and mean ones that've figured out how to make a buck without waste. The only thing is, I don't know what's going on with raw materials. I don't know if companies are killing themselves to make a buck with raw materials cost rising or staying static...
This is the way of the free market. Self correcting and efficient. What's it mean for "us," good, bad, ugly....?
[I.M.P.] Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:31:35 PM
New topic: The Recession.
Just a short bit here. What's going to kill the recession? I'm wondering if anybody who's in manufacturing or retail has been experiencing what we have recently. Hungry vendors and salesmen. It's like a tank full of piranhas-they're all out there for that fish. The cost of much stock product is going down for us here-I'm wondering how widespread this is. Is this happening in a good way? I think so. The fatty companies that can't handle price wars are driven out being replaced by the lean and mean ones that've figured out how to make a buck without waste. The only thing is, I don't know what's going on with raw materials. I don't know if companies are killing themselves to make a buck with raw materials cost rising or staying static...
This is the way of the free market. Self correcting and efficient. What's it mean for "us," good, bad, ugly....?
[Head banger] Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:39:11 AM
The book is interesting. I didnt bother typing the credit for that quote in as the date on it was 2051 and the name was no one I had ever heard of. I did think it a good summary though [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by I.M.P. from Monday, August 24, 2009 11:36:55 PM)
I.M.P. wrote:
Yeah, my post seems kind of dumb now that I see you quoted this guy!
I wonder how the book shapes up from that quote.
Head banger wrote:
Scientists and clerics have much in common. Both take a world that can’t be fully understood and try to explain its fundamental properties
Clerics postulate beliefs that can never be proven; they demand you accept these postulates as your faith, which will guide your actions and thoughts. It’s a top down way of thinking; start with the big picture and derive rules for living. Fundamental knowledge is static. Even the derived rules rarely change.
Scientists work from the bottom up. They build a baseline of observations and formulate theories to explain these phenomena. Nothing is sacred, with new observations; theories are discarded or modified to fit the facts.
[I.M.P.] Monday, August 24, 2009 11:36:55 PM
Yeah, my post seems kind of dumb now that I see you quoted this guy!
I wonder how the book shapes up from that quote. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, August 24, 2009 9:56:25 PM)
Head banger wrote:
Scientists and clerics have much in common. Both take a world that can’t be fully understood and try to explain its fundamental properties
Clerics postulate beliefs that can never be proven; they demand you accept these postulates as your faith, which will guide your actions and thoughts. It’s a top down way of thinking; start with the big picture and derive rules for living. Fundamental knowledge is static. Even the derived rules rarely change.
Scientists work from the bottom up. They build a baseline of observations and formulate theories to explain these phenomena. Nothing is sacred, with new observations; theories are discarded or modified to fit the facts.
[I.M.P.] Monday, August 24, 2009 11:35:11 PM
Well, I didn't read THAT post for some reason! Guess I had a short attention span and decided to reply to the first one down that caught my attention.
Yeah, that is interesting. Good summary of the way each operates. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, August 24, 2009 11:13:46 PM)
Head banger wrote:
which oddly is the theme of the book I got all those quotes out of. unholy domain by dan ronco
I.M.P. wrote:
If there was no more mystery, oh well!
The day there is no mystery is when we're all run by machines anyway.
spapad wrote:
Eventually, maybe that will be it's end. They day we unlock the mysteries will probably be the day the earth explodes. Then, if wont matter!
Head banger wrote:
could science be a religion then? explaining that which can not be understood?
spapad wrote:
Ya know I read something about this subject the other day which was a philosopical theory, that stated that mankind must be born to instictively to believe in a power greater to themselves, unless that instinct is counteracted by Parents, society, etc... As all cultures through time have had a need to seek out powers higher than themselves, I could consider this to be a Viable theory.
(Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, August 24, 2009 9:56:25 PM)
Head banger wrote:
Scientists and clerics have much in common. Both take a world that can’t be fully understood and try to explain its fundamental properties
Clerics postulate beliefs that can never be proven; they demand you accept these postulates as your faith, which will guide your actions and thoughts. It’s a top down way of thinking; start with the big picture and derive rules for living. Fundamental knowledge is static. Even the derived rules rarely change.
Scientists work from the bottom up. They build a baseline of observations and formulate theories to explain these phenomena. Nothing is sacred, with new observations; theories are discarded or modified to fit the facts.
Edited at: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:01:51 PM
[Head banger] Monday, August 24, 2009 11:13:46 PM
which oddly is the theme of the book I got all those quotes out of. unholy domain by dan ronco [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by I.M.P. from Monday, August 24, 2009 11:08:28 PM)
I.M.P. wrote:
If there was no more mystery, oh well!
The day there is no mystery is when we're all run by machines anyway.
spapad wrote:
Eventually, maybe that will be it's end. They day we unlock the mysteries will probably be the day the earth explodes. Then, if wont matter!
Head banger wrote:
could science be a religion then? explaining that which can not be understood?
spapad wrote:
Ya know I read something about this subject the other day which was a philosopical theory, that stated that mankind must be born to instictively to believe in a power greater to themselves, unless that instinct is counteracted by Parents, society, etc... As all cultures through time have had a need to seek out powers higher than themselves, I could consider this to be a Viable theory.
(Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, August 24, 2009 9:56:25 PM)
Head banger wrote:
Scientists and clerics have much in common. Both take a world that can’t be fully understood and try to explain its fundamental properties
Clerics postulate beliefs that can never be proven; they demand you accept these postulates as your faith, which will guide your actions and thoughts. It’s a top down way of thinking; start with the big picture and derive rules for living. Fundamental knowledge is static. Even the derived rules rarely change.
Scientists work from the bottom up. They build a baseline of observations and formulate theories to explain these phenomena. Nothing is sacred, with new observations; theories are discarded or modified to fit the facts.
Edited at: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:01:51 PM
[Head banger] Monday, August 24, 2009 11:12:01 PM
both are music fans (well, you know what I mean). a scientist has more in comon with a priest than a metal head with a miley fan....
dunno, its an interesting point of view. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by I.M.P. from Monday, August 24, 2009 11:06:02 PM)
I.M.P. wrote:
Your previous post explains perfectly why science is not a religion-it is the stark differences between scientists and clerics. Facts=/=Faith. No way, no how.
The differences in approach is what defines each.
Can a cleric who claims things based on a book be called a scientist?
The emotional attachment that scientists have to their specific area of study, and who are part of hot button issues (like global warming) might be similar to a cleric's attachment to their religion. But that attachment is simply a by product of their persuit. The fervor of clerics and scientists is based on two completely different things. An imperfect analogy would be to compare the fervor between a Priest fan at a Priest show and a tween at a Hannah Montana show. The tween is not a metal head, despite the similarities in enthusiasm. The cleric is not a scientist. Both seek answers, both are defined by their method.
That is my two cents anyway.
Head banger wrote:
could science be a religion then? explaining that which can not be understood?
spapad wrote:
Ya know I read something about this subject the other day which was a philosopical theory, that stated that mankind must be born to instictively to believe in a power greater to themselves, unless that instinct is counteracted by Parents, society, etc... As all cultures through time have had a need to seek out powers higher than themselves, I could consider this to be a Viable theory.
(Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, August 24, 2009 9:56:25 PM)
Head banger wrote:
Scientists and clerics have much in common. Both take a world that can’t be fully understood and try to explain its fundamental properties
Clerics postulate beliefs that can never be proven; they demand you accept these postulates as your faith, which will guide your actions and thoughts. It’s a top down way of thinking; start with the big picture and derive rules for living. Fundamental knowledge is static. Even the derived rules rarely change.
Scientists work from the bottom up. They build a baseline of observations and formulate theories to explain these phenomena. Nothing is sacred, with new observations; theories are discarded or modified to fit the facts.
Eventually, maybe that will be it's end. They day we unlock the mysteries will probably be the day the earth explodes. Then, if wont matter!
Head banger wrote:
could science be a religion then? explaining that which can not be understood?
spapad wrote:
Ya know I read something about this subject the other day which was a philosopical theory, that stated that mankind must be born to instictively to believe in a power greater to themselves, unless that instinct is counteracted by Parents, society, etc... As all cultures through time have had a need to seek out powers higher than themselves, I could consider this to be a Viable theory.
(Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, August 24, 2009 9:56:25 PM)
Head banger wrote:
Scientists and clerics have much in common. Both take a world that can’t be fully understood and try to explain its fundamental properties
Clerics postulate beliefs that can never be proven; they demand you accept these postulates as your faith, which will guide your actions and thoughts. It’s a top down way of thinking; start with the big picture and derive rules for living. Fundamental knowledge is static. Even the derived rules rarely change.
Scientists work from the bottom up. They build a baseline of observations and formulate theories to explain these phenomena. Nothing is sacred, with new observations; theories are discarded or modified to fit the facts.
Edited at: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:01:51 PM
[I.M.P.] Monday, August 24, 2009 11:08:28 PM
If there was no more mystery, oh well!
The day there is no mystery is when we're all run by machines anyway. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by spapad from Monday, August 24, 2009 10:12:28 PM)
spapad wrote:
Eventually, maybe that will be it's end. They day we unlock the mysteries will probably be the day the earth explodes. Then, if wont matter!
Head banger wrote:
could science be a religion then? explaining that which can not be understood?
spapad wrote:
Ya know I read something about this subject the other day which was a philosopical theory, that stated that mankind must be born to instictively to believe in a power greater to themselves, unless that instinct is counteracted by Parents, society, etc... As all cultures through time have had a need to seek out powers higher than themselves, I could consider this to be a Viable theory.
(Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, August 24, 2009 9:56:25 PM)
Head banger wrote:
Scientists and clerics have much in common. Both take a world that can’t be fully understood and try to explain its fundamental properties
Clerics postulate beliefs that can never be proven; they demand you accept these postulates as your faith, which will guide your actions and thoughts. It’s a top down way of thinking; start with the big picture and derive rules for living. Fundamental knowledge is static. Even the derived rules rarely change.
Scientists work from the bottom up. They build a baseline of observations and formulate theories to explain these phenomena. Nothing is sacred, with new observations; theories are discarded or modified to fit the facts.
Edited at: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:01:51 PM
[I.M.P.] Monday, August 24, 2009 11:06:02 PM
Your previous post explains perfectly why science is not a religion-it is the stark differences between scientists and clerics. Facts=/=Faith. No way, no how.
The differences in approach is what defines each.
Can a cleric who claims things based on a book be called a scientist?
The emotional attachment that scientists have to their specific area of study, and who are part of hot button issues (like global warming) might be similar to a cleric's attachment to their religion. But that attachment is simply a by product of their persuit. The fervor of clerics and scientists is based on two completely different things. An imperfect analogy would be to compare the fervor between a Priest fan at a Priest show and a tween at a Hannah Montana show. The tween is not a metal head, despite the similarities in enthusiasm. The cleric is not a scientist. Both seek answers, both are defined by their method.
could science be a religion then? explaining that which can not be understood?
spapad wrote:
Ya know I read something about this subject the other day which was a philosopical theory, that stated that mankind must be born to instictively to believe in a power greater to themselves, unless that instinct is counteracted by Parents, society, etc... As all cultures through time have had a need to seek out powers higher than themselves, I could consider this to be a Viable theory.
(Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, August 24, 2009 9:56:25 PM)
Head banger wrote:
Scientists and clerics have much in common. Both take a world that can’t be fully understood and try to explain its fundamental properties
Clerics postulate beliefs that can never be proven; they demand you accept these postulates as your faith, which will guide your actions and thoughts. It’s a top down way of thinking; start with the big picture and derive rules for living. Fundamental knowledge is static. Even the derived rules rarely change.
Scientists work from the bottom up. They build a baseline of observations and formulate theories to explain these phenomena. Nothing is sacred, with new observations; theories are discarded or modified to fit the facts.
Edited at: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:01:51 PM
[spapad] Monday, August 24, 2009 10:12:28 PM
Eventually, maybe that will be it's end. They day we unlock the mysteries will probably be the day the earth explodes. Then, if wont matter! [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03:15 PM)
Head banger wrote:
could science be a religion then? explaining that which can not be understood?
spapad wrote:
Ya know I read something about this subject the other day which was a philosopical theory, that stated that mankind must be born to instictively to believe in a power greater to themselves, unless that instinct is counteracted by Parents, society, etc... As all cultures through time have had a need to seek out powers higher than themselves, I could consider this to be a Viable theory.
(Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, August 24, 2009 9:56:25 PM)
Head banger wrote:
Scientists and clerics have much in common. Both take a world that can’t be fully understood and try to explain its fundamental properties
Clerics postulate beliefs that can never be proven; they demand you accept these postulates as your faith, which will guide your actions and thoughts. It’s a top down way of thinking; start with the big picture and derive rules for living. Fundamental knowledge is static. Even the derived rules rarely change.
Scientists work from the bottom up. They build a baseline of observations and formulate theories to explain these phenomena. Nothing is sacred, with new observations; theories are discarded or modified to fit the facts.
Edited at: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:01:51 PM
[Head banger] Monday, August 24, 2009 10:03:15 PM
could science be a religion then? explaining that which can not be understood? [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by spapad from Monday, August 24, 2009 10:01:05 PM)
spapad wrote:
Ya know I read something about this subject the other day which was a philosopical theory, that stated that mankind must be born to instictively to believe in a power greater to themselves, unless that instinct is counteracted by Parents, society, etc... As all cultures through time have had a need to seek out powers higher than themselves, I could consider this to be a Viable theory.
(Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, August 24, 2009 9:56:25 PM)
Head banger wrote:
Scientists and clerics have much in common. Both take a world that can’t be fully understood and try to explain its fundamental properties
Clerics postulate beliefs that can never be proven; they demand you accept these postulates as your faith, which will guide your actions and thoughts. It’s a top down way of thinking; start with the big picture and derive rules for living. Fundamental knowledge is static. Even the derived rules rarely change.
Scientists work from the bottom up. They build a baseline of observations and formulate theories to explain these phenomena. Nothing is sacred, with new observations; theories are discarded or modified to fit the facts.
Edited at: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:01:51 PM
[spapad] Monday, August 24, 2009 10:01:05 PM
Ya know I read something about this subject the other day which was a philosopical theory, that stated that mankind must be born to instictively to believe in a power greater to themselves, unless that instinct is counteracted by Parents, society, etc... As all cultures through time have had a need to seek out powers higher than themselves, I could consider this to be a Viable theory.
Scientists and clerics have much in common. Both take a world that can’t be fully understood and try to explain its fundamental properties
Clerics postulate beliefs that can never be proven; they demand you accept these postulates as your faith, which will guide your actions and thoughts. It’s a top down way of thinking; start with the big picture and derive rules for living. Fundamental knowledge is static. Even the derived rules rarely change.
Scientists work from the bottom up. They build a baseline of observations and formulate theories to explain these phenomena. Nothing is sacred, with new observations; theories are discarded or modified to fit the facts.
Edited at: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:01:51 PM
[Head banger] Monday, August 24, 2009 9:56:25 PM
Scientists and clerics have much in common. Both take a world that can’t be fully understood and try to explain its fundamental properties
Clerics postulate beliefs that can never be proven; they demand you accept these postulates as your faith, which will guide your actions and thoughts. It’s a top down way of thinking; start with the big picture and derive rules for living. Fundamental knowledge is static. Even the derived rules rarely change.
Scientists work from the bottom up. They build a baseline of observations and formulate theories to explain these phenomena. Nothing is sacred, with new observations; theories are discarded or modified to fit the facts.
[Head banger] Monday, August 24, 2009 9:47:59 PM
Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the sentiment of a hearless world and the soul of soulless conditions. it is the opium of the people
Karl Marx, introduction to "contribution to the critique of Hegels philosophy, 1844
[Head banger] Monday, August 24, 2009 9:15:36 PM
and for another view
sicience without religion is lame; religion without science is blind. Albert Einstein, Science and Religion, 1941 [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by spapad from Monday, August 24, 2009 8:53:40 PM)
spapad wrote:
Nice HB!
Head banger wrote:
science deals mainly with facts, religion deals mainly with values, the two are not rivals, they are complimentary. Martin Luther King, Jr. Strength to Love, 1963
science deals mainly with facts, religion deals mainly with values, the two are not rivals, they are complimentary. Martin Luther King, Jr. Strength to Love, 1963
[Head banger] Monday, August 24, 2009 8:51:12 PM
science deals mainly with facts, religion deals mainly with values, the two are not rivals, they are complimentary. Martin Luther King, Jr. Strength to Love, 1963
[Craig Wagenhoffer] Saturday, August 22, 2009 7:27:50 AM
Normally I'm a very sceptical person. For example: I really don't believe that Planet X will enter the solar system during December 2012 AD and destroy humanity. That's bullshit and it cracks me up. LOL! But the people you see in that documentary are A grade scientists who teach at universities like Harvard. All their theories are based on facts and proof.
It's scary, because it makes me realize how insignificant we really are. The amount of time that has preceded our lifetime is endless, the amount that succeeds it will be endless as well. Going back a billion years in time would still mean nothing. There's no beginning and there's no end. It just goes on forever. Just think of it. It's crazy. I don't understand why some of these scientists don't end up in a mental institution. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by J.D. DIAMOND from Friday, August 21, 2009 5:39:33 PM)
J.D. DIAMOND wrote:
Yeah thats some pretty heavy shit there Craig. But very interesting.... thats a cool post.
Hey,maybe in a parallel universe..."Metallica" never "sold out" or Cliff Burton never died!! lol!
But seriously....that is a very interesting subject and it is "scary" as you said...but mind blowing....
Craig Wagenhoffer wrote:
Yeah, I've heard about dark matter. It's crazy, but it makes sense.
Have you ever heard of parallel universes? Don't ask me to explain what it's all about, because it's too bizarre.
Hello I.M.P., I don't believe we've met, though I do enjoy reading your posts!!
HB, very interesting question!!
I think a lot along the same lines I.M.P. does, however if God exists, that doesn't neccesarily mean science could prove his existence. There are many many other physical things out there that science is aware of and still can't explain...google dark matter!!!
And even though science can't prove he exists, can they prove he doesn't?? NO!! Granted, religion is based on blind faith and not fact...but do we really have to have all the answers?? I don't want to know half the stuff I already do know lol
(Quoting Message by I.M.P. from Friday, August 21, 2009 1:53:57 AM)
I.M.P. wrote:
In the quest for knowledge and fact, toes are bound to be stepped on. Especially the toes of those who hold onto beliefs not based in fact...
Science and religion are in conflict so long as religion stands in the way of science. The fact that there are religious scientists points to the fact that they are not necessarily in conflict.
If there were a scientific way to prove God existed, I'm sure scientists would discover it, publish the findings for all to see, and celebrate. The main goal in science is to establish fact.
Head banger wrote:
are religion and science nesesarily in conflict?
Edited at: Friday, August 21, 2009 6:15:09 AM
[_strat_] Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:35:31 AM
Lol... Ive heard something like that once. Not a parallel universe, but this universe. Supposing that its infinite, that means that there is an infinite number of planets with life on them. No matter how rare they are, the number is still infinite. And it means that there is an infinite number of combinations of life, and an infinite number of planets like our, with an infinite number of worlds that are just like our, and an infinite number of worlds that are just like ours, save for a few details. No matter how rare, they are still infinite.
So, according to that logic, there are worlds without emos, worlds without Miley Cyrus, and worlds where George Bush wasnt taken from his chimp parents and adopted by humans.
Better start buliding a spaceship right away. [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by J.D. DIAMOND from Friday, August 21, 2009 5:39:33 PM)
J.D. DIAMOND wrote:
Yeah thats some pretty heavy shit there Craig. But very interesting.... thats a cool post.
Hey,maybe in a parallel universe..."Metallica" never "sold out" or Cliff Burton never died!! lol!
But seriously....that is a very interesting subject and it is "scary" as you said...but mind blowing....
Craig Wagenhoffer wrote:
Yeah, I've heard about dark matter. It's crazy, but it makes sense.
Have you ever heard of parallel universes? Don't ask me to explain what it's all about, because it's too bizarre.
Hello I.M.P., I don't believe we've met, though I do enjoy reading your posts!!
HB, very interesting question!!
I think a lot along the same lines I.M.P. does, however if God exists, that doesn't neccesarily mean science could prove his existence. There are many many other physical things out there that science is aware of and still can't explain...google dark matter!!!
And even though science can't prove he exists, can they prove he doesn't?? NO!! Granted, religion is based on blind faith and not fact...but do we really have to have all the answers?? I don't want to know half the stuff I already do know lol
(Quoting Message by I.M.P. from Friday, August 21, 2009 1:53:57 AM)
I.M.P. wrote:
In the quest for knowledge and fact, toes are bound to be stepped on. Especially the toes of those who hold onto beliefs not based in fact...
Science and religion are in conflict so long as religion stands in the way of science. The fact that there are religious scientists points to the fact that they are not necessarily in conflict.
If there were a scientific way to prove God existed, I'm sure scientists would discover it, publish the findings for all to see, and celebrate. The main goal in science is to establish fact.
Head banger wrote:
are religion and science nesesarily in conflict?
Edited at: Friday, August 21, 2009 6:15:09 AM
[Bev] Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:18:09 AM
May be of little relevence to some and more to others. I posted this link once before in the old religion thread, a year or so ago. In case anyone cares to share yet another perspective: www.greggbraden.com/
Well Strat, neither the Spaghetti Monster nor the Giant Chicken has a history as a supreme being or a book to help support their existance in history...call the Bible or Koran or whatever books fairy tales if you'd like, but there's at least documented facts in those books as well...no insult taken as you stated nothing I would find insulting...You should always beware of ppl who insist anything upon you!!!!
_strat_ wrote:
Well, proving that he doesnt exist is, imo... Pointless. Religion comes forward with the claim that there is a god - religion has to prove that there is. So long as it doesnt, we can consider god as non-existent. If we are going to play the "prove that isnt so game", then we can all think of tons of outrageous stuff that cant be proven, but cant even be properly disproven. I think that it was Dawkins who came up with the idea of the "flying spaghetti monster". Lets say that I claim that god is a flying spaghetti monster - prove that he isnt. I can claim that a giant chicken laid an egg, and that became the Earth. Prove that isnt so. If I really believe it, you wont be able to convince me that it isnt so, neither will I be ever capable of proving that it is so.
So, "prove that isnt so" logic clearly wont get us anywhere. Sorry, didnt mean to insult anyones religious feelings, the giant chicken and the spaghetti monster are there just to sort of illustrate the point.
And, so long as there are people who are not content with just being religious, but insist that we should all share their religious values, and want to make those same values into laws and constitutions, then I think that we really should know wheter they are right or wrong in their faith.
ron h wrote:
Hello I.M.P., I don't believe we've met, though I do enjoy reading your posts!!
HB, very interesting question!!
I think a lot along the same lines I.M.P. does, however if God exists, that doesn't neccesarily mean science could prove his existence. There are many many other physical things out there that science is aware of and still can't explain...google dark matter!!!
And even though science can't prove he exists, can they prove he doesn't?? NO!! Granted, religion is based on blind faith and not fact...but do we really have to have all the answers?? I don't want to know half the stuff I already do know lol
(Quoting Message by I.M.P. from Friday, August 21, 2009 1:53:57 AM)
I.M.P. wrote:
In the quest for knowledge and fact, toes are bound to be stepped on. Especially the toes of those who hold onto beliefs not based in fact...
Science and religion are in conflict so long as religion stands in the way of science. The fact that there are religious scientists points to the fact that they are not necessarily in conflict.
If there were a scientific way to prove God existed, I'm sure scientists would discover it, publish the findings for all to see, and celebrate. The main goal in science is to establish fact.
You mean that I shouldn't have bought that year's supply of Extenze and invested the rest of my savings in gold?!? Oh crap!!!! (Quoting Message by ron h from Friday, August 21, 2009 9:50:11 PM)
ron h wrote:
Well Strat, neither the Spaghetti Monster nor the Giant Chicken has a history as a supreme being or a book to help support their existance in history...call the Bible or Koran or whatever books fairy tales if you'd like, but there's at least documented facts in those books as well...no insult taken as you stated nothing I would find insulting...You should always beware of ppl who insist anything upon you!!!!
_strat_ wrote:
Well, proving that he doesnt exist is, imo... Pointless. Religion comes forward with the claim that there is a god - religion has to prove that there is. So long as it doesnt, we can consider god as non-existent. If we are going to play the "prove that isnt so game", then we can all think of tons of outrageous stuff that cant be proven, but cant even be properly disproven. I think that it was Dawkins who came up with the idea of the "flying spaghetti monster". Lets say that I claim that god is a flying spaghetti monster - prove that he isnt. I can claim that a giant chicken laid an egg, and that became the Earth. Prove that isnt so. If I really believe it, you wont be able to convince me that it isnt so, neither will I be ever capable of proving that it is so.
So, "prove that isnt so" logic clearly wont get us anywhere. Sorry, didnt mean to insult anyones religious feelings, the giant chicken and the spaghetti monster are there just to sort of illustrate the point.
And, so long as there are people who are not content with just being religious, but insist that we should all share their religious values, and want to make those same values into laws and constitutions, then I think that we really should know wheter they are right or wrong in their faith.
ron h wrote:
Hello I.M.P., I don't believe we've met, though I do enjoy reading your posts!!
HB, very interesting question!!
I think a lot along the same lines I.M.P. does, however if God exists, that doesn't neccesarily mean science could prove his existence. There are many many other physical things out there that science is aware of and still can't explain...google dark matter!!!
And even though science can't prove he exists, can they prove he doesn't?? NO!! Granted, religion is based on blind faith and not fact...but do we really have to have all the answers?? I don't want to know half the stuff I already do know lol
(Quoting Message by I.M.P. from Friday, August 21, 2009 1:53:57 AM)
I.M.P. wrote:
In the quest for knowledge and fact, toes are bound to be stepped on. Especially the toes of those who hold onto beliefs not based in fact...
Science and religion are in conflict so long as religion stands in the way of science. The fact that there are religious scientists points to the fact that they are not necessarily in conflict.
If there were a scientific way to prove God existed, I'm sure scientists would discover it, publish the findings for all to see, and celebrate. The main goal in science is to establish fact.
Head banger wrote:
are religion and science nesesarily in conflict?
Edited at: Friday, August 21, 2009 6:15:09 AM
Edited at: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:02:57 PM
[guidogodoy] Friday, August 21, 2009 10:02:15 PM
You mean that I shouldn't have bought that year's supply of Extenze and invested the rest of my savings in gold?!? Oh crap!!!! [Show/Hide Quoted Message](Quoting Message by ron h from Friday, August 21, 2009 9:50:11 PM)
ron h wrote:
Well Strat, neither the Spaghetti Monster nor the Giant Chicken has a history as a supreme being or a book to help support their existance in history...call the Bible or Koran or whatever books fairy tales if you'd like, but there's at least documented facts in those books as well...no insult taken as you stated nothing I would find insulting...You should always beware of ppl who insist anything upon you!!!!
_strat_ wrote:
Well, proving that he doesnt exist is, imo... Pointless. Religion comes forward with the claim that there is a god - religion has to prove that there is. So long as it doesnt, we can consider god as non-existent. If we are going to play the "prove that isnt so game", then we can all think of tons of outrageous stuff that cant be proven, but cant even be properly disproven. I think that it was Dawkins who came up with the idea of the "flying spaghetti monster". Lets say that I claim that god is a flying spaghetti monster - prove that he isnt. I can claim that a giant chicken laid an egg, and that became the Earth. Prove that isnt so. If I really believe it, you wont be able to convince me that it isnt so, neither will I be ever capable of proving that it is so.
So, "prove that isnt so" logic clearly wont get us anywhere. Sorry, didnt mean to insult anyones religious feelings, the giant chicken and the spaghetti monster are there just to sort of illustrate the point.
And, so long as there are people who are not content with just being religious, but insist that we should all share their religious values, and want to make those same values into laws and constitutions, then I think that we really should know wheter they are right or wrong in their faith.
ron h wrote:
Hello I.M.P., I don't believe we've met, though I do enjoy reading your posts!!
HB, very interesting question!!
I think a lot along the same lines I.M.P. does, however if God exists, that doesn't neccesarily mean science could prove his existence. There are many many other physical things out there that science is aware of and still can't explain...google dark matter!!!
And even though science can't prove he exists, can they prove he doesn't?? NO!! Granted, religion is based on blind faith and not fact...but do we really have to have all the answers?? I don't want to know half the stuff I already do know lol
(Quoting Message by I.M.P. from Friday, August 21, 2009 1:53:57 AM)
I.M.P. wrote:
In the quest for knowledge and fact, toes are bound to be stepped on. Especially the toes of those who hold onto beliefs not based in fact...
Science and religion are in conflict so long as religion stands in the way of science. The fact that there are religious scientists points to the fact that they are not necessarily in conflict.
If there were a scientific way to prove God existed, I'm sure scientists would discover it, publish the findings for all to see, and celebrate. The main goal in science is to establish fact.
it's sad to hear about how few people can really afford what they need health care wise. Pharmaceutical company wise, the only advertisments we ever see are for Cialis or Viagra, and the occasional pain medication. It's very very rare to see any advertisements on the television or in magazines for medicines. It sounds like due to the large scale of advertising by the companies there, the taxes that should go towards better health care etc are going to these companies to flout their wares so to speak. That's sad. I know what you mean by top heavy goverment when it comes to healthcare - we have what are called District Health boards, and there is a ridiculous number of them for such a small country. They are too top heavy, too many people trying to run everything and things get stuffed up. Example, the childrens oncology department at Wellington Hospital (our capital city) has had to close (temporarily) due to their speicialists leaving as the DHB has no idea about retaining them or running the department (and other departments truth be told) - they are too concerned with their pay packets and other things that Joe Public really doesn't care about in the scheme of things. That's the worse case thing here at the moment.
